Is pornography moral?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Is the use and/or viewing of pornography moral?

Depending on the context, I think it can be argued that pornography is just as immoral as prostitution.  If you believe that prostitution is immoral because it involves society forcing a person to be sexually penetrated to make a living, then how is pornography any different other than that a camera and a multi-billion dollar industry are involved?

[Goldwater]

I don't consider it immoral, but calling it moral is also a bit odd...

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

I don't consider it immoral, but calling it moral is also a bit odd...

I probably should have called it 'morally neutral,' but it's the same idea.

[Goldwater]

I don't consider it immoral, but calling it moral is also a bit odd...

I probably should have called it 'morally neutral,' but it's the same idea.

In that case, "Both are moral" would be my answer. FTR, I don't consider prostitution immoral either.

[TNF]

There is nothing "immoral" about viewing pornography. Producing pornography is only immoral if the workers aren't being paid a living wage for the work they are doing.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

There is nothing "immoral" about viewing pornography. Producing pornography is only immoral if the workers aren't being paid a living wage for the work they are doing.

What if you're viewing pornography made by a company that does not pay a living wage to its actors?  Is that any different from a PETA supporter wearing a fur coat?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Both are immoral (abnormal).

[Lief 🗽]

There's nothing inherently immoral with either, though of course there can be circumstances where either of the acts are immoral based on other things (one example of which TNF has already alluded to).

[© tweed]

I do think internet porn is damaging to people in ways we don't yet quite understand, (and is a distortion of man's true nature, to use Christian language).  that doesn't mean I am willing to prima facie condemn anyone involved in it.

[© tweed]

the self-styled liberatory hedonism of many on the left is a postmodern trap in and of itself.

[ElectionsGuy]

I have no problem with the viewing or producing of pornography. Same for prostitution. Both should be legal.

[bedstuy]

There is nothing "immoral" about viewing pornography. Producing pornography is only immoral if the workers aren't being paid a living wage for the work they are doing.

What if you're viewing pornography made by a company that does not pay a living wage to its actors?  Is that any different from a PETA supporter wearing a fur coat?

They need to remake a Union label ad with porn stars.

[© tweed]

There is nothing "immoral" about viewing pornography. Producing pornography is only immoral if the workers aren't being paid a living wage for the work they are doing.

What if you're viewing pornography made by a company that does not pay a living wage to its actors?  Is that any different from a PETA supporter wearing a fur coat?

They need to remake a Union label ad with porn stars.

in college the professor had us watch this documentary about nightclub dancers who were fighting to organize a union.  I can probably track down the title of it if anyone cares.

[afleitch]

It's morally neutral. What is considered pornographic to one person is not to another. Even when it is pornographic, what titillates someone doesn't have the same effect on the next. It is something we should spare moral pronouncements on if the production and viewing of it is consensual.

[TNF]

There is nothing "immoral" about viewing pornography. Producing pornography is only immoral if the workers aren't being paid a living wage for the work they are doing.

What if you're viewing pornography made by a company that does not pay a living wage to its actors?  Is that any different from a PETA supporter wearing a fur coat?

They need to remake a Union label ad with porn stars.

in college the professor had us watch this documentary about nightclub dancers who were fighting to organize a union.  I can probably track down the title of it if anyone cares.

Live Nude Girls Unite?

[© tweed]

looks like it, yes.

[H. Ross Peron]

Both are immoral (abnormal).

[DC Al Fine]

Both are immoral (abnormal).

Abnormal indeed. It appears the majority of the forum uses consent as the sole determinant of sexual morality. I wish lefties would reject consent based morality in sex, just like they reject the consent based morality that the libertarians use in economics.

[afleitch]

Both are immoral (abnormal).

Abnormal indeed. It appears the majority of the forum uses consent as the sole determinant of sexual morality. I wish lefties would reject consent based morality in sex, just like they reject the consent based morality that the libertarians use in economics.

Well it's better than basing it on 'Jesus'; a third of the forum would be f-cked.

[Lief 🗽]

I do think internet porn is damaging to people in ways we don't yet quite understand

I definitely agree with this. I think people have too blase and naive a view of pornography and the effect it has on people, especially on children and teenagers. Internet pornography and the huge and instant access to video pornography especially is an entirely new and unprecedented thing, and I'd be surprised if there aren't at least some harmful psychological, social, etc. aspects to it.

I still wouldn't call pornography immoral though.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I do think internet porn is damaging to people in ways we don't yet quite understand

I definitely agree with this. I think people have too blase and naive a view of pornography and the effect it has on people, especially on children and teenagers. Internet pornography and the huge and instant access to video pornography especially is an entirely new and unprecedented thing, and I'd be surprised if there aren't at least some harmful psychological, social, etc. aspects to it.

I still wouldn't call pornography immoral though.

There's already evidence that it's very harmful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

[Lief 🗽]

Both are immoral (abnormal).

Abnormal indeed. It appears the majority of the forum uses consent as the sole determinant of sexual morality. I wish lefties would reject consent based morality in sex, just like they reject the consent based morality that the libertarians use in economics.

You don't need to reject consent based morality to reject libertarian economics. Libertarians just seem to ignore the fact that contracts between two consenting parties can have unconsensual harmful side-effects on third parties.

[angus]

Is the use and/or viewing of pornography moral?

other:  can go either way.  It's not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

If you're a married man and your wife expects you to maintain the high, hard one for her, but you're exhausted from pounding it all day because you have been watching the Fox News Channel and fantasizing about the leggy, blonde talking heads they constantly feature, then you're a selfish son of a bitch.  If, moreover, you understand that you're being selfish, then your selfishness is immoral.

If, on the other hand, you're a recent college grad, unemployed, geeky, living in your parents attic, and not much interested in actual human contact or the social responsibilities thereunto appertaining, and you're rubbing one out while studying Hustler magazine, then I don't think it's an immoral act.

From the point of view of the publisher:  If you're hiring women (or men) of sound mind and those who have attained an age of wisdom and who enter into the contract willingly and wise, then it's moral because you are simply engaging in a capitalistic endeavor, providing income for you, your family, and your employees.  If, on the other hand, you're dredging in the developed world for hot, young, desperate women who have few alternatives, and you promise them husbands if they crawl into a cargo container for a long voyage across the pacific ocean, and then meet them at the port of Los Angeles with tasers and pimps and force them into the performance arts, and you know that what you're doing is unethical but you do it anyway because it pays the bills, then it is not moral.

[Foucaulf]

If you believe that prostitution is immoral because it involves society forcing a person to be sexually penetrated to make a living

But that's not why most people think prostitution is immoral? There is an observable coercion by one leader to a prostitute; the word "pimp" gets used a lot.

What if you're viewing pornography made by a company that does not pay a living wage to its actors?  Is that any different from a PETA supporter wearing a fur coat?

If TNF is talking about breaching a right, your example is talking about hypocrisy, or insincerity. And maybe your whole argument is based on insincerity of the pornography viewer, but that is a narrow moral position you're taking. It is not compatible with the utilitarian arguments made by Tweed, Lief and others.

Furthermore, arguing on insincerity would make it harder to claim pornography as a total moral wrong. Maybe a viewer pays good money to ensure his porn is made with professional actors in a controlled environment. That seems to solve the problem you posed.

I have a very hard time seeing how pornography can be a categorical wrong ... the secular view is that pornography has to infringe on a right, so probably the right of a person to her body. Anyone with references to arguments from scripture would aid this discussion.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

If you believe that prostitution is immoral because it involves society forcing a person to be sexually penetrated to make a living

But that's not why most people think prostitution is immoral? There is an observable coercion by one leader to a prostitute; the word "pimp" gets used a lot.

It is not the primary reason for why people object to prostitution, although many do on the grounds that it is economic coercion.  Regardless of whether a pimp is involved or not, a prostitute is often obliged to be sexually penetrated by economic necessity.  Such is a reflection of our failure to ensure decent living standards for those who would otherwise not need to resort to prostitution just to put food on the table.

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What if you're viewing pornography made by a company that does not pay a living wage to its actors?  Is that any different from a PETA supporter wearing a fur coat?
[/quote]

If TNF is talking about breaching a right, your example is talking about hypocrisy, or insincerity. And maybe your whole argument is based on insincerity of the pornography viewer, but that is a narrow moral position you're taking. It is not compatible with the utilitarian arguments made by Tweed, Lief and others.

Furthermore, arguing on insincerity would make it harder to claim pornography as a total moral wrong. Maybe a viewer pays good money to ensure his porn is made with professional actors in a controlled environment. That seems to solve the problem you posed.

I have a very hard time seeing how pornography can be a categorical wrong ... the secular view is that pornography has to infringe on a right, so probably the right of a person to her body. Anyone with references to arguments from scripture would aid this discussion.
[/quote]

TNF said that viewing pornography is not acting immorally, but producing and giving the actors poor wages is.  I merely posited the question of if the same moral standards should be applied to those who give money to the porn industry by viewing their content.  That money doesn't necessarily go to the actors in fair proportion, but of course I'm not saying this is true for the entire industry.  I'm not really arguing whether or not pornography is immoral by itself.  I have my own views on how society should address these questions, and I am not among those who think that outlawing porn (or treating prostitutes like criminals) will make the world a better place.