Flags

[Antarctic]

I saw something unusual today.I walked past a high school and it was flying a bright and crisp New Zealand flag.
That might not seem unusual to Americans but it is here...I live in a city of 120,000 people and I doubt if there are more than ten flags flying in the whole city.

Seeing the flag led to a discussion at work as to how we relate to our flag.My workmates range from 25 to 60.Not surprisingly none of us has ever owned a flag and none of us would be offended if somebody burnt or trampled on one.

Which leads me to a query...why do many Americans seemingly have a form of flag worship?I've travelled to the US over a dozen times and I love the country greatly but I'm constantly surprised by the vast number of flags,sometimes grotesquely large, flying on Government,commercial and private flagpoles.

Alongside the reverence in which the armed forces are held it's a major difference between our countries....why?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I would note that our national anthem describes seeing the flag fly through battle in the War of 1812. There's also the iconic photograph of the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima. Almost from the beginning, the American flag has been a symbol of American strength and perseverance.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Other countries don't have as much to be proud of.

[Tender Branson]

I own 3 HUGE flags (2 meters x 1 meter): 2x US flags (1 normal, 1 with an eagle inside), 1 Austrian flag (with the regular eagle inside, with broken chains, hammer and sickle)

I own several smaller flags from Canada, UK, etc.

Why ?

Because of the local fair, which sell them very cheap.

[Franzl]

Demonstrating patriotism is very important in America. You can't even attend a musical without being forced to go through the national anthem.

[Franzl]

Other countries don't have as much to be proud of.

Actually, I think it's that Americans are trained to be proud of everything, even things for which there is no reason to be proud.

[dead0man]

Demonstrating patriotism is very important in America. You can't even attend a musical without being forced to go through the national anthem.

I've been to musicals without being forced to go through the national anthem....but if it was such torture for you I'm glad you managed to escape to place without nationalism.

Other countries don't have as much to be proud of.

Actually, I think it's that Americans are trained to be proud of everything, even things for which there is no reason to be proud.

Like slavery, pushing out the natives and fat people!  As we're the only nation that's done any of those, we should be proud of them.

[Oakvale]

The only people who display flags here are A) a lot of people during the World Cup or other international sporting events or B) Sinn Féin types.

[Franzl]

I never said any of those things only happened in America, but there's definiteöy a tendency to shove patriotism down everyone's throats. Note I didn't say the USA has nothing to be proud of, but rather that many things that one really shouldn't be proud of are either ignored or spun to somehow be positives.

Surely you will admit there's an unhealthy automatism to patriotism? At a concert in downtown Alton (for example) in a park, the Pledge of Allegiance was recited before any music could be played.

[Hash]

There's been something of an uptick in patriotism/nationalism in Canada under Dear Leader Harper. There's a lot of stuff about Canada being "the best country in the world" (incessantly parroted by the Tories), symbolic displays of nationalism and promotion of nationalist themes. The most egregious example being the government's (inadvertently hilarious) War of 1812 remembrance campaign, which consisted largely of nationalist myths and historical misrepresentations. For slightly less symbolic displays, there's the heavy promotion of Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic and "Canada's North" which I find somewhat disturbing or annoying.

In Ottawa/Ontario, there are a lot of Canadian flags, obviously on all public/federal buildings, public schools and other public spaces but also many private houses/businesses. Playing O Canada at the beginning of every sport event is universal and they played O Canada at the beginning of every school day in high school. In obvious contrast, Canadian flags in Quebec indicate (a) something owned by the federal government or (b) federalists. The provincial flag is obviously far more widespread in Quebec and contrasts with Ottawa, where the ugly provincial flag is very rarely seen.

[dead0man]

I never said any of those things only happened in America, but there's definiteöy a tendency to shove patriotism down everyone's throats.

Maybe, but I don't think it's as pervasive as you seem to think it is.  Perhaps it's because the places I go to and people I communicate with, but I'm much more likely to  hear somebody give the US unnecessary sh**t than praise it unnecessarily.

and FTR I don't like excessive patriotism myself.  Especially when it's halfassed.  I've bitched several times about yellow magnetic ribbons on the back of cars that were everywhere a decade ago.  I still think the things right with the US outweigh the things wrong with the US.

[Franzl]

and FTR I don't like excessive patriotism myself.  Especially when it's halfassed.  I've bitched several times about yellow magnetic ribbons on the back of cars that were everywhere a decade ago.  I still think the things right with the US outweigh the things wrong with the US.

I wouldn't disagree with that, especially in a worldwide sense.

[CatoMinor]

Sadly it seems in many places in the US the flag has become an not a symbol but an idol. We expect (though thankfully cannot force) our kids to solute it and chant and oath of allegiance to it every morning. Songs are sung of it. It might as well be legal requirement to wear a small lapel pin version of it on the suits of candidates in most places.

I have nothing against patriotism, but clearly Americans can go a bit far with it sometimes.   

[Link]

Not surprisingly none of us has ever owned a flag and none of us would be offended if somebody burnt or trampled on one.

Which leads me to a query...why do many Americans...

News flash foreigner if you don't count little flags handed out for fourth of July most Americans never own flags either.  It's not like you drive down the street in suburbia and see Americans raising flags and saluting.

[Foucaulf]

I suspect the US case holds for all countries claiming to stand for an ideal rather than the values of some historically contingent groups. Same goes for France but not Italy, Brazil but not Japan (feel free to call me out on this). The other case is when a minority population feels oppressed within a larger state. But in that context the patriotism is politically divisive enough to not turn into requirement.

I can always give the facile answer; imperialist states have more opportunities to stick their flags out.

[PJ]

Wow, it must be nice in New Zealand. Americans definitely go way too far with patriotism, the flag, and the pledge of allegiance. Even on a forum as liberal as this, we often see examples of annoying nativism and nationalism. Like this:

Not surprisingly none of us has ever owned a flag and none of us would be offended if somebody burnt or trampled on one.

Which leads me to a query...why do many Americans...

News flash foreigner if you don't count little flags handed out for fourth of July most Americans never own flags either.  It's not like you drive down the street in suburbia and see Americans raising flags and saluting.

[Yogi]

I'm pretty patriotic, but I try not to go overboard.

[Хahar 🤔]

It's worth noting that the New Zealand flag as a colonial standard isn't really comparable to the flag of the United States or other non-Commonwealth nations.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Demonstrating patriotism is very important in America. You can't even attend a musical without being forced to go through the national anthem.

What?  where....?

[Franzl]

Demonstrating patriotism is very important in America. You can't even attend a musical without being forced to go through the national anthem.

What?  where....?

At the Muny amphitheater in St. Louis, for example.

[DINGO Joe]

Demonstrating patriotism is very important in America. You can't even attend a musical without being forced to go through the national anthem.

What?  where....?

At the Muny amphitheater in St. Louis, for example.

So, like before Cats or Wicked, they play the national anthem?

[Franzl]

Demonstrating patriotism is very important in America. You can't even attend a musical without being forced to go through the national anthem.

What?  where....?

At the Muny amphitheater in St. Louis, for example.

So, like before Cats or Wicked, they play the national anthem?

Precisely. And I can't understand why it's necessary.

[angus]

I'm constantly surprised by the vast number of flags,sometimes grotesquely large, flying on Government,commercial and private flagpoles,

but on Tommy Hilfiger underwear it seems perfectly normal.


I have one flag in my basement and one in my office, FWIW.  None on my underwear, though. 

[Hatman 🍁]

There's been something of an uptick in patriotism/nationalism in Canada under Dear Leader Harper. There's a lot of stuff about Canada being "the best country in the world" (incessantly parroted by the Tories), symbolic displays of nationalism and promotion of nationalist themes. The most egregious example being the government's (inadvertently hilarious) War of 1812 remembrance campaign, which consisted largely of nationalist myths and historical misrepresentations. For slightly less symbolic displays, there's the heavy promotion of Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic and "Canada's North" which I find somewhat disturbing or annoying.

In Ottawa/Ontario, there are a lot of Canadian flags, obviously on all public/federal buildings, public schools and other public spaces but also many private houses/businesses. Playing O Canada at the beginning of every sport event is universal and they played O Canada at the beginning of every school day in high school. In obvious contrast, Canadian flags in Quebec indicate (a) something owned by the federal government or (b) federalists. The provincial flag is obviously far more widespread in Quebec and contrasts with Ottawa, where the ugly provincial flag is very rarely seen.

Indeed. The Ontario flag, just like the NZ flag is imperialist sh*t. Which is why you don't see them much in either place. I'm sure you see that black kiwi flag a lot more in NZ than the blue ensign (is that what it's called?) Both the American flag and the Canadian flags are quite iconic, and so it's easier for people to have pride in flying them.

[angus]

The Ontario flag, just like the NZ flag is imperialist sh*t.

My son has an Ontario flag in his bedroom.  Quebec as well.  I really like Flags, and I got into giving him a little flag of every country he visits, so now he has a little collection sticking out of a New York Yankees bucket on his bookshelf, between his New York Yankees bear and his New York Yankees cap.  In the case of Canada, I give him provincial flags.  He's only been to Ontario and Quebec so far.