Obama and the deportation issue

[They not like us]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/27/obama-is-deporting-more-immigrants-than-bush-republicans-dont-think-thats-enough/

Kind of a dated article, but the sentiment remains.

How could the GOP play this to their advantage in 2016, if at all?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Republicans hate browns and yellows. This is really, really, really obvious to anyone with immigrant heritage. It comes out in ways that are subtle to most white Americans but are regular experiences shared by the vast majority of immigrants. In short: there's no real way for Republican candidates to play this to their advantage. They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

[hopper]

Republicans hate browns and yellows. This is really, really, really obvious to anyone with immigrant heritage. It comes out in ways that are subtle to most white Americans but are regular experiences shared by the vast majority of immigrants. In short: there's no real way for Republican candidates to play this to their advantage. They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

I just can't believe you posted that what I have in bold.

No hating on one ethnic group doesn't reasonate with me by the way. I am white yes.

The R's don't have to win the immigration issue but the R's have to say away from self-deportation comments. What the R's have to do is start talking to different ethnic groups in their messaging. Their current game plan isn't working.

[hopper]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/27/obama-is-deporting-more-immigrants-than-bush-republicans-dont-think-thats-enough/

Kind of a dated article, but the sentiment remains.

How could the GOP play this to their advantage in 2016, if at all?

No not at all. A Republican Candidate can't just say oh Obama deported more people than Bush W. It doesn't mean anything and Obama won the Latino Vote twice as well.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Republicans hate browns and yellows. This is really, really, really obvious to anyone with immigrant heritage. It comes out in ways that are subtle to most white Americans but are regular experiences shared by the vast majority of immigrants. In short: there's no real way for Republican candidates to play this to their advantage. They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

Besides the fact that your first sentenced negated anything else of value you might have posted afterwards due to its shear absurdity, the Latino votes power is vastly overstated, and I don’t quite understand why either party should bend over backwards for them in the same manner that they do for AIPAC. My party can be a bit more wise in it's outreach, but to try to win more than 40% of the Hispanic vote is a quixotic mission.

[They not like us]

Republicans hate browns and yellows. This is really, really, really obvious to anyone with immigrant heritage. It comes out in ways that are subtle to most white Americans but are regular experiences shared by the vast majority of immigrants. In short: there's no real way for Republican candidates to play this to their advantage. They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

I just can't believe you posted that what I have in bold.

Question: are you of Hispanic heritage? Preferably having a recent generation immigrate from their country?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Any not legalized alien deprived of a job by the enforcement is going to self-deport most likely. Unless the gov't turns a blind eye to employers violating the law, which wouldn't surprise me at all, or the various other support mechanism.

Anyone who follows this would know that you cannot deport, you have to enforce and enforce aggressively on issues of tax, entitlement and document fraud, you have to enforce an e-verify requirement and you need to go after ID theft as well.

I said that Republicans should try and reduce Obama's appeal to Hispanic voters utilizing the failure to do anything at all back in 2012. The wonder of super PACs is that they don't have to be chained to a candidate and thus could have been railing against Obama in both print and on the air as well, even well in advance of the election.

They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

Winning Latinos over immigration alone is impossible anyway because no voter is one dimensional. Yes, if they think the candidate is a racist or hates them then it shuts the conversation down, so it is possible to lose them on the issue alone. But if you keep that door open, you can win them on other issues, the issues you would have to win them over on anyway.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Republicans hate browns and yellows. This is really, really, really obvious to anyone with immigrant heritage. It comes out in ways that are subtle to most white Americans but are regular experiences shared by the vast majority of immigrants. In short: there's no real way for Republican candidates to play this to their advantage. They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

Besides the fact that your first sentenced negated anything else of value you might have posted afterwards due to its shear absurdity, the Latino votes power is vastly overstated, and I don’t quite understand why either party should bend over backwards for them in the same manner that they do for AIPAC. My party can be a bit more wise in it's outreach, but to try to win more than 40% of the Hispanic vote is a quixotic mission.

I say that from personal experience and from interactions I've had with other minorities. There's nearly a consensus viewpoint on this issue: Republicans mirror the racist behavior we've encountered amongst average joe white guy. Behavior from average joe white guy correlates directly with Republican voting patterns as well.

@NCYankee, my point was that Latinos will always identify more strongly with the Democratic Party on immigration. Republicans have thoroughly poisoned that well. They can win them over on other issues or at least, slice into the support of a few ethnic groups or win back the ones they lost (Cubans, Venezuelans, Colombians and the Vietnamese).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Republicans hate browns and yellows. This is really, really, really obvious to anyone with immigrant heritage. It comes out in ways that are subtle to most white Americans but are regular experiences shared by the vast majority of immigrants. In short: there's no real way for Republican candidates to play this to their advantage. They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

[They not like us]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican.  Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican. Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

I mean, I'd consider my viewpoint to be questionable because I'm only half-Mexican but I'm obviously not White so I get to enjoy the fruits of the racial categories bestowed on us by our founders. Republicans love playing into these categories, Democrats try to be inclusive. Also, in activist circles it's really normal to refer to "people of color" or "black and brown folk" as a way to distinguish Latinos of indigenous/black descent from the descendants of colonists.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

@NCYankee, my point was that Latinos will always identify more strongly with the Democratic Party on immigration. Republicans have thoroughly poisoned that well. They can win them over on other issues or at least, slice into the support of a few ethnic groups or win back the ones they lost (Cubans, Venezuelans, Colombians and the Vietnamese).

They would have to win them over on other issues anyway. The Democrats have always been the more pro-immigrant party and a large segment of the country is resistant to heavy influxes varying from extreme nativists to people who support immigration in general but don't like the illegal variety. They have almost invariably been favorable to or even members of the party.

And Republicans are not going to become an anti-business party any sooner then they will become more pro-immigrant then the Democrats. The Republicans have been defined by such traits since the 1850's. Back then they shut their mouths and ran as the party that would protect the steel mill they worked at with tariffs and keep their cost of living low with a gold standard. I imagine we will see a 2010's variety of the same thing. Maybe it is education or even healthcare in place of the tariffs and gold of the 1800's.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican.  Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

So what does "of immigrant heritage" mean to you?  25% isn't "good enough" to matter?  I also find it a bit ironic that you feel it's acceptable to freely use the terms "yellows" and "browns" as you criticize others about racial insensitivity.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

@NCYankee, my point was that Latinos will always identify more strongly with the Democratic Party on immigration. Republicans have thoroughly poisoned that well. They can win them over on other issues or at least, slice into the support of a few ethnic groups or win back the ones they lost (Cubans, Venezuelans, Colombians and the Vietnamese).

They would have to win them over on other issues anyway. The Democrats have always been the more pro-immigrant party and a large segment of the country is resistant to heavy influxes varying from extreme nativists to people who support immigration in general but don't like the illegal variety. They have almost invariably been favorable to or even members of the party.

And Republicans are not going to become an anti-business party any sooner then they will become more pro-immigrant then the Democrats. The Republicans have been defined by such traits since the 1850's. Back then they shut their mouths and ran as the party that would protect the steel mill they worked at with tariffs and keep their cost of living low with a gold standard. I imagine we will see a 2010's variety of the same thing. Maybe it is education or even healthcare in place of the tariffs and gold of the 1800's.

Eh, I'd disagree. Look at the voting patterns of the Scandinavians and Germans or other groups with significant amounts of Protestants. Republicans have always found redemption amongst one immigrant group or another until 2012. Now their tent has thoroughly excluded them. If you want to win over both hillbillies and CEOs, you need to exclude them. That's the nature of our two-party system.

I tend to agree with you by the way. I predicted the demise of CIR just as every establishment Republican decided to endorse it. The base doesn't want it and will never want it.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican. Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

So what does "of immigrant heritage" mean to you?  25% isn't "good enough" to matter?  I also find it a bit ironic that you feel it's acceptable to freely use the terms "yellows" and "browns" as you criticize others about racial insensitivity.

I am Mexican-American and have skin that could be characterized as "brown" so I get to use it. I also exist in a system characterized by racial constructions founded upon differences in skin tone so it would be ignorant for me to deny that "yellow or brown" isn't a useful distinction. You can be of Asian descent and look what we've decided is "white" and hardly ever be touched by racism. You can be Barack Obama and raised by a white mom and white grandparents and have your life governed by your skin color. That's the nature of race: it's a construct and it's arbitrary. There's nothing biological or logical about it.

I'm happy that you identify with your heritage but that's your prerogative. I get to be defined by mine whether I like it or not.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican.  Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

So what does "of immigrant heritage" mean to you?  25% isn't "good enough" to matter?  I also find it a bit ironic that you feel it's acceptable to freely use the terms "yellows" and "browns" as you criticize others about racial insensitivity.

I am Mexican-American and have skin that could be characterized as "brown" so I get to use it. I also exist in a system characterized by racial constructions founded upon differences in skin tone so it would be ignorant for me to deny that "yellow or brown" isn't a useful distinction. You can be of Asian descent and look what we've decided is "white" and hardly ever be touched by racism. You can be Barack Obama and raised by a white mom and white grandparents and have your life governed by your skin color. That's the nature of race: it's a construct and it's arbitrary. There's nothing biological or logical about it.

So, just to make sure I'm understanding your argument correctly: it's OK to use the term "browns" because you are Mexican-American?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican. Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

So what does "of immigrant heritage" mean to you?  25% isn't "good enough" to matter?  I also find it a bit ironic that you feel it's acceptable to freely use the terms "yellows" and "browns" as you criticize others about racial insensitivity.

I am Mexican-American and have skin that could be characterized as "brown" so I get to use it. I also exist in a system characterized by racial constructions founded upon differences in skin tone so it would be ignorant for me to deny that "yellow or brown" isn't a useful distinction. You can be of Asian descent and look what we've decided is "white" and hardly ever be touched by racism. You can be Barack Obama and raised by a white mom and white grandparents and have your life governed by your skin color. That's the nature of race: it's a construct and it's arbitrary. There's nothing biological or logical about it.

So, just to make sure I'm understanding your argument correctly: it's OK to use the term "browns" because you are Mexican-American?

Yes, I'm taking ownership of the arbitrary nature of race and caste in the western hemisphere; a system that has caused me to disown my culture throughout my childhood and abhor my mother's accent.

This forum needs more visible minorities...

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican. Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

So what does "of immigrant heritage" mean to you?  25% isn't "good enough" to matter?  I also find it a bit ironic that you feel it's acceptable to freely use the terms "yellows" and "browns" as you criticize others about racial insensitivity.

I am Mexican-American and have skin that could be characterized as "brown" so I get to use it. I also exist in a system characterized by racial constructions founded upon differences in skin tone so it would be ignorant for me to deny that "yellow or brown" isn't a useful distinction. You can be of Asian descent and look what we've decided is "white" and hardly ever be touched by racism. You can be Barack Obama and raised by a white mom and white grandparents and have your life governed by your skin color. That's the nature of race: it's a construct and it's arbitrary. There's nothing biological or logical about it.

So, just to make sure I'm understanding your argument correctly: it's OK to use the term "browns" because you are Mexican-American?

Yes, I'm taking ownership of the arbitrary nature of race and caste in the western hemisphere; a system that has caused me to disown my culture throughout my childhood and abhor my mother's accent.

This forum needs more visible minorities...

Oh, ok, so what percentage of you is of "yellow" dissent?

[They not like us]

Inks, do you find it offensive to say "white" instead of "caucasian"?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican. Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

So what does "of immigrant heritage" mean to you?  25% isn't "good enough" to matter?  I also find it a bit ironic that you feel it's acceptable to freely use the terms "yellows" and "browns" as you criticize others about racial insensitivity.

I am Mexican-American and have skin that could be characterized as "brown" so I get to use it. I also exist in a system characterized by racial constructions founded upon differences in skin tone so it would be ignorant for me to deny that "yellow or brown" isn't a useful distinction. You can be of Asian descent and look what we've decided is "white" and hardly ever be touched by racism. You can be Barack Obama and raised by a white mom and white grandparents and have your life governed by your skin color. That's the nature of race: it's a construct and it's arbitrary. There's nothing biological or logical about it.

So, just to make sure I'm understanding your argument correctly: it's OK to use the term "browns" because you are Mexican-American?

Yes, I'm taking ownership of the arbitrary nature of race and caste in the western hemisphere; a system that has caused me to disown my culture throughout my childhood and abhor my mother's accent.

This forum needs more visible minorities...

Oh, ok, so what percentage of you is of "yellow" dissent?

I don't usually use that nor do I usually feel comfortable so you can strike that from the record. Can you please respond to the content of my posts now rather than policing my vocabulary?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Inks, do you find it offensive to say "white" instead of "caucasian"?

Different words have different cultural meanings at different points in time.  "White" and "black" are culturally acceptable.  Some words that were culturally acceptable at one time, such as "Negro", have become culturally unacceptable.  You cannot equate "white" with "yellow" in terms of its acceptability to society.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

As someone of immigrant heritage, I can assure you that the sweeping statement is not true.

Elaborate, Señor Iñks.

I am 1/8 Mexican; my father is 1/4 Mexican. Neither of us "hate browns and yellows", and we are Republicans.  Ironically, we also do not use the terms "browns" or "yellows" to refer to other human beings, something that I see TDFB seems to enjoy doing.

lol okay hombre.

So what does "of immigrant heritage" mean to you?  25% isn't "good enough" to matter?  I also find it a bit ironic that you feel it's acceptable to freely use the terms "yellows" and "browns" as you criticize others about racial insensitivity.

I am Mexican-American and have skin that could be characterized as "brown" so I get to use it. I also exist in a system characterized by racial constructions founded upon differences in skin tone so it would be ignorant for me to deny that "yellow or brown" isn't a useful distinction. You can be of Asian descent and look what we've decided is "white" and hardly ever be touched by racism. You can be Barack Obama and raised by a white mom and white grandparents and have your life governed by your skin color. That's the nature of race: it's a construct and it's arbitrary. There's nothing biological or logical about it.

So, just to make sure I'm understanding your argument correctly: it's OK to use the term "browns" because you are Mexican-American?

Yes, I'm taking ownership of the arbitrary nature of race and caste in the western hemisphere; a system that has caused me to disown my culture throughout my childhood and abhor my mother's accent.

This forum needs more visible minorities...

Oh, ok, so what percentage of you is of "yellow" dissent?

I don't usually use that nor do I usually feel comfortable so you can strike that from the record. Can you please respond to the content of my posts now rather than policing my vocabulary?

I'm not policing your vocabulary--merely your hypocrisy.  As for the content of your post, I am still waiting for you to tell me your definition of "of immigrant heritage".

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Republicans hate browns and yellows. This is really, really, really obvious to anyone with immigrant heritage. It comes out in ways that are subtle to most white Americans but are regular experiences shared by the vast majority of immigrants. In short: there's no real way for Republican candidates to play this to their advantage. They might not lose the "minority" vote in 2016 like they did in 2012 but they won't win Latinos over on the issue of immigration.

Besides the fact that your first sentenced negated anything else of value you might have posted afterwards due to its shear absurdity, the Latino votes power is vastly overstated, and I don’t quite understand why either party should bend over backwards for them in the same manner that they do for AIPAC. My party can be a bit more wise in it's outreach, but to try to win more than 40% of the Hispanic vote is a quixotic mission.

I say that from personal experience and from interactions I've had with other minorities. There's nearly a consensus viewpoint on this issue: Republicans mirror the racist behavior we've encountered amongst average joe white guy. Behavior from average joe white guy correlates directly with Republican voting patterns as well.

Care to address the fact that the Hispanic vote is not as important/powerful as you think it is? That’s a bit more important of an issue than your irrational perceptions of Republicans.

[They not like us]

Inks, do you find it offensive to say "white" instead of "caucasian"?

Different words have different cultural meanings at different points in time.  "White" and "black" are culturally acceptable.  Some words that were culturally acceptable at one time, such as "Negro", have become culturally unacceptable.  You cannot equate "white" with "yellow" in terms of its acceptability to society.

You also cannot insinuate that "yellow" is used commonly enough to go off about it. DFB was obviously using it sarcastically to mock the GOP.