Ohio GOP to Pass New "NC-like" Voting Restrictions

[greenforest32]

Let's not forget election day is not even a holiday or on the weekend in this country but on a workday: Tuesday.

RE: Massachusetts and New York being laggards

^ This is true but there's a difference between not expanding existing access and reducing existing access. Also let's look at changes proposed in those states this year:

Massachusetts Democrats are in the process of implementing online voter registration and early voting.

New York Democrats passing early voting in the state house but NY Republicans blocking it in the state senate.

Republicans are ardent opponents of early voting, same-day registration, automatic registration and ardent backers of felony disenfranchisement laws, the Electoral College, the Senate's base of representation (no regards to population), the filibuster, etc. It's pretty clear what they think of democracy. No credibility.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

But those scandals are "last-minute" only because you're looking at the issue from the starting point of a one-day election.  Scandals can also happen the week after an election ends; that would tip the scale in favor of extending elections to last past when they do now.

No it wouldn't.  If it happens after election day, no one who has cast a ballot can say they would have voted differently has they known what was known before election day.  If you cast an early vote in October and in early November you leatn that the person you voted for is an embezzling sleazebag, you're out of luck.  You can't change that vote even though there would have been time to vote differently had you waited a bit to cast your ballot.

But if you learn in December that the guy you voted for was a sleazebag, don't you think you would want to change your vote.  Your argument seems based entirely on arbitrariness.  If the fact that candidate X is a sleazebag comes out in October, you think that the voter should be forced to have the opportunity to change his mind about the candidate, but if the fact that candidate X is a sleazebag comes out in December, you're saying that the voter is out of luck.  In order to achieve what you want, wouldn't a better solution be to start campaign seasons years in advance, so that all potential scandals would be divulged?  Under such a scenario, early voting would have little-to-no impact on this "problem" that you raise.

[publicunofficial]

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Republican Party does better when less people vote.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Ah, someone has already managed to compare this to apartheid. Impressive, most impressive.

Anyway, full steam ahead with these voting restrictions.

Is it just me or does the bolded part sound like something Krazen would say?

[TJ in Oregon]

Admittedly I haven't read through all of these but I do think the Golden Week definitely needs to go. 30 days is plenty of time for absentee voting anyway. I can't imagine anyone who wants to vote is not going to because they only have 30 days to vote early instead of 35. For mailed in ballots, the post office typically takes about 2 days. It's a non-issue.

[Tender Branson]

I support voter-picture ID for all US states, but what the Republicans are trying to do besides that is nuts.

[pbrower2a]

I don't care if it costs a trillion dollars for everyone who wants to cast their vote to be able to do so. I'd imagine most people who believe in democracy feel the same way.

When the electoral results are a travesty of public opinion one has no democracy. It is that simple.

The Republican Party simply does not want urban, non-white poor people to vote because such people are the difference between winning and losing.

I support voter-picture ID for all US states, but what the Republicans are trying to do besides that is nuts.

In Michigan one shows a voter registration card with no picture (but one's signature)  and signs a statement that one is the person duly authorized to vote on penalty of perjury in the even of a fraudulent misstatement. Signatures are unique, and they have always been adequate for legal purposes in establishing the genuineness of a document. Such includes wills, checks, passports, prescription pick-ups, delivery receipts, and credit-card purchases. Forgery is prima facie evidence of fraud if one has gotten something out of a falsified signature.

Picture ID is surprisingly not so good. 

[muon2]

I thank God everyday that I live in a state with liberalized voting laws.  The SoS here is pushing for online voter registration and early voting.

Hearing what's going on in these Republican states is maddening in a way I can't really express.  Don't give up, even if you have to jump through flaming hoops and wait for a day straight to vote.  Make your voice heard.

IL just approved online voting this year and I like the way it was implemented. It requires a lookup in the SoS data base of drivers and holders of state IDs. The database includes the actual resident's location and info about visitor drivers who are not residents for voting. It's actually a stronger check than the system of precinct registrars who only take a signature affirmation that the person is qualified to vote from the location entered in the form. I don't know why Pubs wouldn't like it.

We've had early voting for many years here. I see no problems with it for general elections, and it definitely reduces the number of absentee votes which in turn speeds up the reporting of election results. One downside to early voting that I've seen is for the primary. Candidates have a habit of dropping out of big primary races in the month before the election day; just think about the presidential primary process. That causes a lot of wasted votes, and may well have been decisive in the IL gov race in 2010. Bob Schillerstrom dropped out with three weeks to go and received over 7000 votes. He came from the same county as Kirk Dillard and it is widely believed that the bulk of those would have gone to Dillard or Jim Ryan, with few going to winner Bill Brady who beat Dillard by less than 200 votes. Dillard was also polling much better against Quinn and given Quinn's close margin over Brady in Nov, many observers believed that Dillard would have beat Quinn.

[emailking]

One downside to early voting that I've seen is for the primary. Candidates have a habit of dropping out of big primary races in the month before the election day; just think about the presidential primary process. That causes a lot of wasted votes, and may well have been decisive in the IL gov race in 2010.

I think the real problem here is the voting system, not the early voting. A ranked voting system (e.g. instant runoff, condorcet) could significantly alleviate the issue you cite. Even when all the candiates stay in the race, votes get wasted in the same manner. It's just with the early dropout, some voters whose votes would have been wasted (without the dropout), may have had a chance to not waste their votes if they waited. But with a good ranked voting system, much less is wasted in general.

[LeBron]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ohio-republican-voting-bill

http://www.msnbc.com/the-ed-show/watch/all-eyes-on-ohio-in-the-voting-rights-fight-93433411575

So for recent status on this, the super majority in the Republican-controlled Ohio House of Representatives passed two bills last week that implement two absurd voting restrictions. They're now sitting on Republican Governor John Kasich's desk and according to his spokesmen, he's expected to sign them into law.

The first one will purge voting rolls by comparing Ohio's databases to other state's databases in order to find supposed "errors" like deceased people, non-citizens, or those registered in other states. By doing this, those who have the first and last name and same date of birth of any errors they find nationwide within the system will have their vote rejected.

The second one is more simple to understand, but it's even more idiotic than the above one. It reduces the number of voting machines per county and it's apparently just an attempt to please counties who have sent in complaints of wasting money on unused machines. What this will do is bring us back to the 2004-like controversy where thousands of voters leave the lines in Northern Ohio because of lines that could last as long as 8 hours.

Come January, the Ohio General Assembly plans to go even farther and pass bills that cut early voting, end the "Golden Week" which will attack young voters from registering to vote and casting an early ballot around the same period of time, and giving solely the state legislature the power to allow the Secretary of Suppression to send out absentee ballots to certain areas which has "Screw Cuyahoga County over" written all over it. 1.3 million Ohioans voted by absentee last year so this will have a huge effect.

If Kasich signs these though, it will bring a good sign of things to come for Ed FitzGerald and possibly even State Sen. Nina Turner. Chris Matthews was just talking about this issue to and now that the Obamacare roll-out and Nelson Mandela's death are starting to lower it's significance in the news, it's now just talk of the congressional budget deal and the voting rights in NC and OH. These first two laws might not hurt Kasich's approval much at first, but after all of these are passed and said and done with, I think Kasich will be very vulnerable than people have seen him come election time.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Those types just want to steal elections. Good for the Ohio GOP to put a stop to such theft.

If only it were so krazen: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/06/21/shocker-republicans-account-for-most-cases-of-u-s-voter-fraud/

[krazen1211]

Those types just want to steal elections. Good for the Ohio GOP to put a stop to such theft.

If only it were so krazen: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/06/21/shocker-republicans-account-for-most-cases-of-u-s-voter-fraud/

Ah, but it is so. The author merely decided to ignore cases of lying cheaters that didn't fit his paradigm. Not to mention actual stolen elections.

[Miles]

Of course, none of these states will ever go far enough with this for krazen, so he'll just have to keep cherrypicking instances of isolated fraud. His idea that students shouldn't be allowed to vote, even if they're over 18, is an 'interesting theory.' Remind me again who has 'contempt' for the democratic process...

I doubt any even Republican legislature be as extreme and blatant in their suppression efforts as to enact his ideas.

[krazen1211]

Of course, none of these states will ever go far enough with this for krazen, so he'll just have to keep cherrypicking instances of isolated fraud. His idea that students shouldn't be allowed to vote, even if they're over 18, is an 'interesting theory.' Remind me again who has 'contempt' for the democratic process...

I doubt any even Republican legislature be as extreme and blatant in their suppression efforts as to enact his ideas.

Mr. Miles, a legislature in the United States is typically an extension of the democratic process in some way, shape, or form. I suspect that is what makes these North Carolina folks so angry, and why the progressives simply propose bulldozing over the various legislatures in southern states. They didn't vote properly.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Of course, none of these states will ever go far enough with this for krazen, so he'll just have to keep cherrypicking instances of isolated fraud. His idea that students shouldn't be allowed to vote, even if they're over 18, is an 'interesting theory.' Remind me again who has 'contempt' for the democratic process...

I doubt any even Republican legislature be as extreme and blatant in their suppression efforts as to enact his ideas.

Mr. Miles, a legislature in the United States is typically an extension of the democratic process in some way, shape, or form. I suspect that is what makes these North Carolina Republican folks so angry, and why the progressives reactionaries simply propose bulldozing over the various legislatures voters in southern states. They didn't vote properly.

Fixed.

[krazen1211]

Of course, none of these states will ever go far enough with this for krazen, so he'll just have to keep cherrypicking instances of isolated fraud. His idea that students shouldn't be allowed to vote, even if they're over 18, is an 'interesting theory.' Remind me again who has 'contempt' for the democratic process...

I doubt any even Republican legislature be as extreme and blatant in their suppression efforts as to enact his ideas.

Mr. Miles, a legislature in the United States is typically an extension of the democratic process in some way, shape, or form. I suspect that is what makes these North Carolina Republican folks so angry, and why the progressives reactionaries simply propose bulldozing over the various legislatures voters in southern states. They didn't vote properly.

Fixed.

I notice you have missed various recent proposals from members of Congress to simply compel Southern legislatures and governors to bend to their will. Quite curious for a 'federalist'.


There is no need to bulldoze over individual voters when you have the majority, as the North Carolina Republicans do. You merely let them squeal.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There is no need to bulldoze over individual voters when you have the majority, as the North Carolina Republicans do. You merely let them squeal.

Except I think the NCGOP has made a miscalculation, possibly because they believe their own hype over the extent of voter fraud. They've managed to alienate more voters into not voting for Republicans and/or voting for Democrats than their efforts to rig the voting lists in their favor will benefit them.

[krazen1211]

There is no need to bulldoze over individual voters when you have the majority, as the North Carolina Republicans do. You merely let them squeal.

Except I think the NCGOP has made a miscalculation, possibly because they believe their own hype over the extent of voter fraud. They've managed to alienate more voters into not voting for Republicans and/or voting for Democrats than their efforts to rig the voting lists in their favor will benefit them.

Possibly. I note that such thinking is mere speculation, as opposed to concrete actual results of the prior elections in North Carolina. The nuclear option was certainly triggered in North Carolina. Recent events there are the natural consequence of nuclear options.

We certainly cannot have a situation where random speculation and/or screaming whiny losers trumps the people's legislature. That would be anarchy. I always observed that the progressives have an anarchist bone or two in them. sometimes the people cannot be made to believe what Skywalker wants them to believe.

I suppose that's when the people should be made to.

[krazen1211]

Non-citizens caught voting in Ohio.


Time to throw these hoodlums in prison! They can join this lying cheater.

[Link]

foxnews.com

Get a real source and we'll talk.

[Badger]

Those types just want to steal elections. Good for the Ohio GOP to put a stop to such theft.

LOL! You cite a 19 year old newspaper article?!??

Congrats. I hardly ever ding someone for trolling, but......

[All Along The Watchtower]

You guys laugh at krazen, but it's people like him who are the heart and soul of the movement to restrict voting (and destroy teacher's unions, and...)

[Badger]

Here's what Jon Husted, our Republican Secretary of State, said about 2012 voter fraud in a report earlier this year.

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/mediaCenter/2013/2013-05-23.aspx

Highlights: 625 recorded cases of "voting irregularities", of which also include reports alleging voter suppression. Of these only 135, including those referred by the SoS, were referred to county prosecutors for potential charges.

Just today I spoke to a reporter for a major newspaper who called our office regarding the status of some of the cases referred here, as he's doing a story on the outcome of such referrals. He said thus far it appeared relatively few of the 135 referrals have resulted in charges due to lack of evidence voter fraud occurred.

So a few hundred reported "irregularities" not involving voter suppression, of which only 135 were found worthy by local boards of elections or the SoS to warrant possible prosecution, and only a few of those were found to have merit sufficient to prosecute. Out of over 5 and a half million votes cast.

What does all this tell us? To quote Secretary Husted (R-OH):

“This report demonstrates that voter fraud does exist; but it is not an epidemic,” Secretary Husted said. “More importantly, our effort to look into irregularities and root out voter fraud sends a strong message that no amount of fraud is acceptable. If you cheat, you will be caught and held accountable.”

“While it is apparent that incidents of voter fraud have occurred and we must remain vigilant, it is also clear that the safeguards we have in place worked in the majority of these cases,” Secretary Husted said.

Also worth noting from the report: In a majority of the cases in which a voter was found to have cast multiple ballots in Ohio, only one of those ballots was ultimately counted.

In summary, the current system of diligently rooting out and prosecuting the rare cases of vote fraud apparently works.  

[Badger]

Those types just want to steal elections. Good for the Ohio GOP to put a stop to such theft.

LOL! You cite a 19 year old newspaper article?!??

Congrats. I hardly ever ding someone for trolling, but......

Indeed, the two Democrats on the three-member board of elections, an elected body, testified that they were aware of the voter fraud, had intentionally failed to enforce the election law and had later tried to conceal their activities by hurriedly certifying the Democratic candidate as the winner.

........19 years ago.

Stop trolling.

[Zioneer]

Non-citizens caught voting in Ohio.


Time to throw these hoodlums in prison! They can join this lying cheater.

17 cheaters out of an electorate of millions. Congratulations.