HHS in 2010: 40-67% of those with individual insurance won't be able to keep it

[Link]

When you grow up and you buy insurance, including homeowners insurance, auto insurance, and others, you might realize that the point is not to hit the deductible every single year, and making some bizarre assertion that someone like Mr. Schwab would be hitting the deductible every year is of course pure nonsense.

What?   The example I gave was hitting the deductible for 3 years?

3 years≠every year for the rest of your life

Where do you get the idea just because someone hits their deductible it always means that was their intent?  My post made no statement regarding intent.

Let me explain this for the common sense impared.

Say you are on a car trip on a holiday weekend.  You are two states away from your home and there isn't an in network hospital in site for miles.  You get into a bad car accident.  Boom.  Right there that is over $20,000.  Which is your out of network deductable.  For the net three years you have multiple surgeries, a long hospital stay, multiple doctor follow ups, and of course copious amounts of physical and occupatinal therapy.  Assuming you are stabilized at some point you can be moved closer to home to an in network facility and upon final discharge you can see in network physicians and physical therapists.  You can also have some follow up surgeries in network.  Okay so that is $20,000+$10,000 (or $11,000) + $10 (or $11,000).  That would break the median family.  This is not the type of thing people are shooting for when they say they want health insurance.  That's all I'm saying.

Let's look at plans for the average person.

[Brittain33]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-greta-van-susteren-out-journalisms-cbs-news-on-florida-womans-junk-insurance/

[7,052,770]

As usual, Krazen is full of sh**t.

It is possible under pre-Obamacare conditions for a couple in their 60s to get "coverage" for around $250 a month...but the plan has a $10,000 deductible, only covers category 1 (cheap generic) drugs (with a $10 copay, and most category 1 drugs are less than $10, so it almost just doesn't cover drugs at all).  It is essentially covers car accidents and cancer, and all other medical bills are on the member.

That's a horrible plan, especially for a senior citizen, who is going to be paying thousands in OOP costs through the year.  I'm proud to live in a country where we have a sensible law like Obamacare that forbids unscrupulous companies from scanning senior citizens with nonsense plans like this one.

[krazen1211]

When you grow up and you buy insurance, including homeowners insurance, auto insurance, and others, you might realize that the point is not to hit the deductible every single year, and making some bizarre assertion that someone like Mr. Schwab would be hitting the deductible every year is of course pure nonsense.

What?   The example I gave was hitting the deductible for 3 years?

3 years≠every year for the rest of your life

Where do you get the idea just because someone hits their deductible it always means that was their intent?  My post made no statement regarding intent.

Let me explain this for the common sense impared.

Say you are on a car trip on a holiday weekend.  You are two states away from your home and there isn't an in network hospital in site for miles.  You get into a bad car accident.  Boom.  Right there that is over $20,000.  Which is your out of network deductable.  For the net three years you have multiple surgeries, a long hospital stay, multiple doctor follow ups, and of course copious amounts of physical and occupatinal therapy.  Assuming you are stabilized at some point you can be moved closer to home to an in network facility and upon final discharge you can see in network physicians and physical therapists.  You can also have some follow up surgeries in network.  Okay so that is $20,000+$10,000 (or $11,000) + $10 (or $11,000).  That would break the median family.  This is not the type of thing people are shooting for when they say they want health insurance.  That's all I'm saying.

Let's look at plans for the average person.

When you're old enough to buy a car, I suggest shopping for something called first party medical benefits. It costs about $40 a year and provides $50k of accident health care coverage for me. For a fellow like Mr. Schwab, such is much preffered over getting screwed by a bunch of liberals who jacked his premium to $1200 so that others could be freeloaders.


The mathematics here is heavily amusing. While claiming that some cannot pay $10k out of pocket they increase this good fellow's premium to $14k per year.

[krazen1211]

As usual, Krazen is full of sh**t.

It is possible under pre-Obamacare conditions for a couple in their 60s to get "coverage" for around $250 a month...but the plan has a $10,000 deductible, only covers category 1 (cheap generic) drugs (with a $10 copay, and most category 1 drugs are less than $10, so it almost just doesn't cover drugs at all).  It is essentially covers car accidents and cancer, and all other medical bills are on the member.

That's a horrible plan, especially for a senior citizen, who is going to be paying thousands in OOP costs through the year.  I'm proud to live in a country where we have a sensible law like Obamacare that forbids unscrupulous companies from scanning senior citizens with nonsense plans like this one.

On the contrary. Mr. Schwab says himself that is a great plan. The 2014 plan with the $1200 premium is the scam, and even still maintains the deductible.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Krazen probably claims to be an Economics graduate from "the School of Hard Knocks".

[Brittain33]

He found a plan for about $985 (if I remember correctly) and said it was "unaffordable." Well, if he can't afford it, then he surely qualifies for subsidies, and he and his wife won't be paying that full cost of $12k a year for the two of them. If he doesn't qualify, he's making a substantial amount of money and can afford it, and his previous plan was Ameriplan quality and wasn't going to cover his costs as a 62-year-old. BFD.

[krazen1211]

He found a plan for about $985 (if I remember correctly) and said it was "unaffordable." Well, if he can't afford it, then he surely qualifies for subsidies, and he and his wife won't be paying that full cost of $12k a year for the two of them. If he doesn't qualify, he's making a substantial amount of money and can afford it, and his previous plan was Ameriplan quality and wasn't going to cover his costs as a 62-year-old. BFD.

Translation: Liberals screwed Mr. Schwab out of $8640 and liberals don't give a sh**t.


I suppose that was the point.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

He found a plan for about $985 (if I remember correctly) and said it was "unaffordable." Well, if he can't afford it, then he surely qualifies for subsidies, and he and his wife won't be paying that full cost of $12k a year for the two of them. If he doesn't qualify, he's making a substantial amount of money and can afford it, and his previous plan was Ameriplan quality and wasn't going to cover his costs as a 62-year-old. BFD.

Translation: Liberals screwed Mr. Schwab out of $8640 and liberals don't give a sh**t.


I suppose that was the point.

[Link]

When you're old enough to buy a car, I suggest shopping for something called first party medical benefits. It costs about $40 a year and provides $50k of accident health care coverage for me. For a fellow like Mr. Schwab, such is much preffered over getting screwed by a bunch of liberals who jacked his premium to $1200 so that others could be freeloaders.

The mathematics here is heavily amusing. While claiming that some cannot pay $10k out of pocket they increase this good fellow's premium to $14k per year.

Lol.  When people resort to concrete thinking you know they don't have a point.  So car wrecks are the only way people get $20,000+ hospital bills now?  Very interesting.  Even in the thread where we discussed young people skipping out on insurance no one said anything that inane.  At this guy's age he needs to be getting all kinds of screenings and could end up with a cancer diagnosis or heart attack any day.  Love to see him get his auto insurance to cover his $20,000 deductible from the heart attack he had while sitting on a coach at his son's place out of state.

[krazen1211]

When you're old enough to buy a car, I suggest shopping for something called first party medical benefits. It costs about $40 a year and provides $50k of accident health care coverage for me. For a fellow like Mr. Schwab, such is much preffered over getting screwed by a bunch of liberals who jacked his premium to $1200 so that others could be freeloaders.

The mathematics here is heavily amusing. While claiming that some cannot pay $10k out of pocket they increase this good fellow's premium to $14k per year.

Lol.  When people resort to concrete thinking you know they don't have a point.  So car wrecks are the only way people get $20,000+ hospital bills now?  Very interesting.  Even in the thread where we discussed young people skipping out on insurance no one said anything that inane.  At this guy's age he needs to be getting all kinds of screenings and could end up with a cancer diagnosis or heart attack any day.  Love to see him get his auto insurance to cover his $20,000 deductible from the heart attack he had while sitting on a coach at his son's place out of state.

Ah, the backtracking already. I hope Mr. Schwab doesn't take your poor financial advice.

Whatever healthcare he needs of course he will pay for with the savings on his low premium. At least, before you people jacked up his insurance rates.

[Brittain33]

He found a plan for about $985 (if I remember correctly) and said it was "unaffordable." Well, if he can't afford it, then he surely qualifies for subsidies, and he and his wife won't be paying that full cost of $12k a year for the two of them. If he doesn't qualify, he's making a substantial amount of money and can afford it, and his previous plan was Ameriplan quality and wasn't going to cover his costs as a 62-year-old. BFD.

Translation: Liberals screwed Mr. Schwab out of $8640 and liberals don't give a sh**t.


I suppose that was the point.

[Indy Texas]

They found that either the doctors they like were not available or were available only on plans which were much more expensive than what they have today.

Who cares?  You want the country ossified in a completely unworkable system simply because someone doesn't want to go out and find a new doctor?  I've moved so much for school and work it's unusual for me to have the same doctor for more than 2 or three years at a time.  People really need to get over it and become adults.

That would be fine as a point of view.  But Obama said "if you like your doctor, you get to keep that doctor. period" when he was selling Obamacare law.  Now if he said "if you like your doctor, you need to get over it and become adults and look for another one" during the Obamacare bill debates and then the bill gets passed then of course people now should no reason to complain as the consequences were made transparent.  But that was not what took place.

You forget that there has never been a guarantee that "if you like your doctor, you can keep him/her" with or without Obamacare. Doctors enter and leave networks or are dropped by them. It's always been that way. Obamacare didn't create that problem.

I had to switch primary care doctors last year because it was time for the Texas employee benefits system to renew its contract and they switched from BCBS to United Healthcare. I didn't have a tantrum and go, "THANKS OBAMA!"

So yes, I'm going to say "If you like your doctor, you need to get over it and become adults and look for another one" because people have already been doing that. And, if you like your plan you can keep it? What if your insurer decides to stop offering that plan? You have no right to it beyond the length of your contract with them. That also has been the case and would be the case with or without Obamacare.

And if people thought the government was somehow going to force doctors to maintain all existing network relationships indefinitely and prevent insurance companies from ever discontinuing any of its plans ever, then they're idiots who get what they deserve.

[Link]

Ah, the backtracking already. I hope Mr. Schwab doesn't take your poor financial advice.

Whatever healthcare he needs of course he will pay for with the savings on his low premium. At least, before you people jacked up his insurance rates.

Well I hope he doesn't take your financial advice and get auto insurance when he doesn't own a car.

[Indy Texas]

Ah, the backtracking already. I hope Mr. Schwab doesn't take your poor financial advice.

Whatever healthcare he needs of course he will pay for with the savings on his low premium. At least, before you people jacked up his insurance rates.

Well I hope he doesn't take your financial advice and get auto insurance when he doesn't own a car.

The twist? Mr. Schwab is actually a member of the Atlas Forum. Try to guess who he is.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

One excellent point I've heard today: Insurance companies are using Obamacare as an excuse to try and upsell customers into far more expensive plans. If you have a $200/mo. plan now and get a cancellation letter offering a new plan at $800/mo., that doesn't mean you have to take the new plan, that the plan is comparable, or that it's your cheapest option. It means you have to be a responsible f-ing adult and see if there's another option out there. Almost certainly there will be, often from the same insurance company.

[muon2]

Link

Sue Klinkhamer has a problem.

It’s called Obamacare.


Each year it went up a little to, as of Sept. 1, $291 with a $3,500 deductible. Then, a few weeks ago, she got a letter.

“Blue Cross,” she said, “stated my current coverage would expire on Dec. 31, and here are my options: I can have a plan with similar benefits for $647.12 [or] I can have a plan with similar [but higher] pricing for $322.32 but with a $6,500 deductible.”





Heh. Karma in a way.

I can't comment on some of the postings in this thread, but I'm surprised that this link hasn't gotten more traction. Ms. Klinkhamer was the mayor of the town next to mine and a Congressional staffer after that. Furthermore she's a Dem who strongly supported the ACA and is 60 so she falls into the age bracket of the other examples.

It's pretty clear that she either has to double her deductible or double her monthly payment.

[Torie]

One wonders why "you can't," but I understand why it might be viewed as an unhealthy curiosity. Don't you have this fantasy that in an alternative universe, you could just be totally unleashed, Mike, and just do it, and say it? Don't answer that.

[muon2]

But I'm also a scientist so without a sufficient fact set I would also say I can't comment on the veracity. OTOH when I personally know the person and situation in question, it's a bit of a different matter.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Link

Sue Klinkhamer has a problem.

It’s called Obamacare.


Each year it went up a little to, as of Sept. 1, $291 with a $3,500 deductible. Then, a few weeks ago, she got a letter.

“Blue Cross,” she said, “stated my current coverage would expire on Dec. 31, and here are my options: I can have a plan with similar benefits for $647.12 [or] I can have a plan with similar [but higher] pricing for $322.32 but with a $6,500 deductible.”





Heh. Karma in a way.

I can't comment on some of the postings in this thread, but I'm surprised that this link hasn't gotten more traction. Ms. Klinkhamer was the mayor of the town next to mine and a Congressional staffer after that. Furthermore she's a Dem who strongly supported the ACA and is 60 so she falls into the age bracket of the other examples.

It's pretty clear that she either has to double her deductible or double her monthly payment.

It's pretty clear that the woman's insurer is trying to trick her into a far more expensive plan than she could otherwise get shopping a healthcare exchange.

1) The article says that she has to buy insurance on her own because she's unemployed. That suggests she'd qualify for the most generous of subsidies. In Massachusetts, when I was unemployed, the state covered 90% of my COBRA payments and later, health insurance premiums.

2) Running her demo through healthcare.gov -- a 50+ woman in Kern County, Illinois -- I was able to find a Silver plan for $292.71 per month from Blue Cross, her current insurer. The deductible on the plan? $0.00. As someone who was covered by a Massachusetts Silver plan until he moved to California, I can attest -- Silver tends to be really good coverage that probably exceeds what most people are currently getting from their employer.



This woman will need to pay $2 more per month, before subsidy, to keep her current insurer and drop her deductible to $0. And since it's her current insurance company, she should have no difficulty keeping her current doctors.

If she'd like to drop her premiums, Bronze coverage appears to be available around $220.

FOR REFERENCE: The plan chosen is Blue Choice Silver PPO 003 via Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois. Click the link to see exactly what it covers.

[muon2]

Link

Sue Klinkhamer has a problem.

It’s called Obamacare.


Each year it went up a little to, as of Sept. 1, $291 with a $3,500 deductible. Then, a few weeks ago, she got a letter.

“Blue Cross,” she said, “stated my current coverage would expire on Dec. 31, and here are my options: I can have a plan with similar benefits for $647.12 [or] I can have a plan with similar [but higher] pricing for $322.32 but with a $6,500 deductible.”





Heh. Karma in a way.

I can't comment on some of the postings in this thread, but I'm surprised that this link hasn't gotten more traction. Ms. Klinkhamer was the mayor of the town next to mine and a Congressional staffer after that. Furthermore she's a Dem who strongly supported the ACA and is 60 so she falls into the age bracket of the other examples.

It's pretty clear that she either has to double her deductible or double her monthly payment.

It's pretty clear that the woman's insurer is trying to trick her into a far more expensive plan than she could otherwise get shopping a healthcare exchange.

1) The article says that she has to buy insurance on her own because she's unemployed. That suggests she'd qualify for the most generous of subsidies. In Massachusetts, when I was unemployed, the state covered 90% of my COBRA payments and later, health insurance premiums.

2) Running her demo through healthcare.gov -- a 50+ woman in Kern County, Illinois -- I was able to find a Silver plan for $292.71 per month from Blue Cross, her current insurer. The deductible on the plan? $0.00. As someone who was covered by a Massachusetts Silver plan until he moved to California, I can attest -- Silver tends to be really good coverage that probably exceeds what most people are currently getting from their employer.



This woman will need to pay $2 more per month, before subsidy, to keep her current insurer and drop her deductible to $0. And since it's her current insurance company, she should have no difficulty keeping her current doctors.

If she'd like to drop her premiums, Bronze coverage appears to be available around $220.

FOR REFERENCE: The plan chosen is Blue Choice Silver PPO 003 via Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois. Click the link to see exactly what it covers.

Sue's pretty savvy with this stuff, so I'm surprised she wouldn't have checked the online options. I'll let you know what other relevant facts I find.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Sue's pretty savvy with this stuff, so I'm surprised she wouldn't have checked the online options. I'll let you know what other relevant facts I find.

It's hard doing a true comparison since I don't know any of the other specifics of her plan, but I'm always suspicious when a newspaper article talks about skyrocketing premiums without doing a basic check on a publicly available site to see if there are any alternatives available.

To be fair, she may not have checked the exchange because Illinois requires the use of healthcare.gov, which is still pretty wonky.

[King]

This was just like the time all those people who liked eating 95% beef/5% rat had their freedoms striped from them when the government forced them to buy 100% USDA beef.

[Lief 🗽]

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77990231/

More and more it seems like these anti-Obamacare stories are bunk, peddled by journalists who aren't doing their jobs and don't know what they're talking about, insurance companies who want their customers to buy more expensive plans, and irresponsible/ignorant people who aren't willing to actually find out what their options are.

[memphis]

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77990231/

More and more it seems like these anti-Obamacare stories are bunk, peddled by journalists who aren't doing their jobs and don't know what they're talking about, insurance companies who want their customers to buy more expensive plans, and irresponsible/ignorant people who aren't willing to actually find out what their options are.

This is absolutely true. Unfortunately, Person A gets screwed by Obama makes a more entertaining and sensationalist read than Person B gets better healthcare coverage. Thanks, free market!