US secretly listens to Merkel's telephone calls - Merkel "not amused"

[Middle-aged Europe]

And what bogus excuse is it this time?

Can't be terrorism. They've practically worn that one out already.

We've come to a point where the NSA is probably just doing these things because it can to do it.

It's the job of an intelligence agency to gather information. So it gathers any information it can. The NSA is probably wiretapping Obama's phones too. Because it can do it.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The German government's reaction is perhaps noteworthy though because it is among the most hypocritical in the world.

NSA wiretaps German citizens: "Move along folks, nothing of consequence has happened here...don't worry."

NSA wiretaps Merkel: "This is an outrage!!"

[Middle-aged Europe]

The German government's reaction is perhaps noteworthy though because it is among the most hypocritical in the world.

The German government is among the most hypocritical in the world.

I think he was talking about the old GDR, which defined mass surveillance.

I was talking about the fact that Merkel wasn't bothered by US suveillance programs until she was personally affected by them.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The point of spying agencies is to gather information on foreign governments. This isn't controversial.

Controversial enough for the European Parliament to vote to suspend the SWIFT agreement and for the SPD to demand a suspension of TTIP negoatitions with the U.S.

But, hey, there's always some collateral damage to be expected...

[Middle-aged Europe]

As far as we know, the NSA maintains a couple of installations on German territory, for instance the so-called Dagger Complex in Darmstadt. Currently, they're also in the process of building a new complex (the Consolidated Intelligence Center) in Wiesbaden. Just close them down and expel the people who work there. Can't be that hard to do. They're foreigners, revoke their residence permit for christ's sake.

[Middle-aged Europe]

That'd be really mean. Citizens of Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, and the ROC should have the right to live and work anywhere in the EEA+Switzerland, and vice versa.

Officials and employees of the U.S. government don't have a "right to work" outside of U.S. territory unless the respective government agrees to it.

Which is why the German government's reaction is pretty half-assed. I mean, they invited the spies who spy on them into our country in the first place.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Frontpage of today's TAZ:

"NSA reveals: Merkel's dangerous terrorist network"

(they even included her mother! )




http://dl.taz.de/taz/shop/download_action.php?model=20100&typ=seite1

[Middle-aged Europe]

In related news, the NSA's official website (www.nsa.gov) is currently offline due to an alleged DDoS attack.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/nsa-gov-down-denial-service-attack-rumored-8C11469380

[Middle-aged Europe]

As for the actual fallout of the whole affair... the personal relationship between Barack Obama and Angela Merkel is probably permanently damaged as a result of this. When Obama was in Berlin this summer, he allegedly assured Merkel that U.S. surveillance measures are not directed against Germany or something. Which means that he either lied to her or he didn't know of this either.

Not sure how far anyone is actually willing to go on SWIFT and TTIP. Suspending the agreements has a certain appeal among many members of the European Parliament, including the parliament's current president, but the ultimate decision rests with the national governments.

In any case, Germany and France are apparently pushing now for the so-called "no-spy agreement" with the United States. We'll see how willing the U.S. government is in making concessions here.

[Middle-aged Europe]

And a Bundestag committee of inquiry on the NSA's activites in Germany seems more and more likely at this point. SPD, Greens, and Left want it, CDU says it isn't entirely opposed to the idea either. Bundestag is probably gonna vote on it in a special session on November 18.

There's also a discussion whether it's feasable to get Edward Snowden to Germany for a testimony before the committee... an idea which is primarly pushed by Greens and Left, but also some in the SPD:

http://www.dw.de/can-germany-call-on-snowden-as-a-witness/a-17186463

[Middle-aged Europe]

We just spy on everyone. I'm sure we're tapping Cameron's phone too and Harper's and Netanyahu's.

I suppose Israel is fair game. Wiretapping Cameron and Harper would violate the Five Eyes agreement though. So if the NSA does wiretap them I wouldn't necessarily assume that they were explicitly authorized by the White House to do so.

Anyway... Green party MP and member of the Bundestag intelligence committee Hans-Christian Ströbele met Edward Snowden in Moscow on Thursday. That stirred up the debate in Germany how Snowden could testify for the Bundestag committee of inquiry which will be set up later this month.

Letting him come here would effectively result in Germany formally refusing an extradition request by the U.S. government. Since this is considered politically inconvenient, representatives of the incoming CDU/SPD government seem to favour a testimony by Edward Snowden in the German Embassy in Moscow... an option certainly least favoured by Snowden himself because he'd very much like to swap Russia for Germany as his place of residence.

http://www.dw.de/might-snowden-get-asylum-in-germany/a-17201788

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/snowden-tells-german-lawmaker-he-is-willing-to-testify-in-nsa-scandal-a-931237.html