Some random thoughts on the future of the parties

[Kitteh]

So yeah, just typing out some thoughts off the top of my head to start a conversation. Pretty much every party did well in some ways and not so well in others in the last election.

First, the Progressive Union. Did pretty good for a new party but fell short of expectations and polling just a bit. The PU is really extremely similar to the Liberal Party and other "center-left" groups since dissolution. Because of the political landscape of Atlasia these parties will always exist at the center of the Atlasian spectrum. Like the others it faces the dilemma of getting many more 2nd prefs than 1st, leaving it in third behind the left and the right too many times. Therefore these parties thrive when they are strong enough to dominate the national conversation and then quickly die out and are eclipsed by the more stable forces on the left and right. See the fate of the Liberal Party: doing great when nappy was prez and thus they were automatically the force to deal with, but then as soon as nap left office they fragmented and died. One of the big contributing factors is that almost all of your members are new and active, which is a blessing and a curse because it means you don't have anywhere near the number of zombie voters (people who dont post or pay much attention to Atlasia then turn out and vote reliably for one party at the election) as Lab and the Feds do.

The other problem the PU has is poor support from Labor compared to the Feds. In the last election, almost all Feds pref'd PU over Labor but many Laborites pref'd the Feds of PU. This is a problem because, at least right now, the Feds have more votes than Lab at the federal level. The nappy-led Liberal party was always really good at switching allegiances with the left and the right when it suited them. They had a good Lib-Lab coalition going for a while (w/Nathan as VP and before) when the Feds were their main rivals, which allowed them to beat Clarence/Yelnoc and others. Then when Labor was gaining at the end of Nap's presidency they switched to an alliance with the Feds, which let them beat Labor in the February Senate election (nappy vs AG). As my exit poll showed nap won this because of strong support from the right even many prominent Feds voting for him over their own nominee. Here it seems like the PU is less strategically adept than the Liberals. Part of this may be that the Libs always had an extremely strong heirarchy (with Nappy and Wolfy at the top ofc), while the PU has the exact opposite.

Lastly, I'm curious to see how your current membership gets after playing for a while. It's kinda a truism that everyone in Atlasia who stays here for a long time burns out or goes loony after getting buttf**ked and bogged down in meaningless crap all the time. Some of these hyperactive newbies you have prob will go down the same road after a while.

Feds, its clear that you guys won this election by running towards the left hard. That seems like a successful strategy for now. The best asset you guys have is that your two opponents (Lab and PU) oppose each other at least as hard as they oppose you. You can count on most PU votes over Lab and at least some Lab votes over PU. Unfortunately that's not really mostly under your control. The biggest liability is whether people on your own right-wing (cough mideast cough) will damage your moderation strategy. Really not much to say to you guys other than we'll wait and see how Prez Duke turns out for you.

Labor...eh too lazy to do this and I talk to most of you that matter privately so no real reason

[Lumine]

I disagree with the assertion that the Progressive Union is "extremely similar" to the Liberal Party. They'll evolve - as all parties in Atlasia inevitably do - but for now they've established a much bigger tent than the Liberals ever had.

For instance, I can't imagine someone like Lumine, a socially moderate-to-conservative centrist, joining the Liberals. And several other PRO members seem to be well to the left of many Laborites. While Wolfentoad's recruitment was indiscriminate, the most active members of the Liberal Party usually fell on a fairly narrow portion of the political spectrum - socially liberal, moderate on economic issues, and generally supportive of free trade and military non-interventionism.

This is because the PRO isn't really organized around a political ideology. The party exists for one reason - to wrest power from the emergent "duopoly." They're a bit like Italy's Five Star Movement, and the party consists largely of people who feel locked out of Labor, the Federalists, or both.

(I'm sure that some members of the party see things differently, and they should feel free to correct me if they do.)

It's hard to judge one's own party, but that analysis looks quite accurate. Political ideology is not that important in Atlasia, so our party is based on preventing a two-party system and encouraging regional reform, which is the issue in which we completely agree. You might even say we're trying to blow up the Labor-Federalist duopoly system without going crazy and trollish like the NM-AM. Kitteh raised an interesting point, and I know I can't tell if we are going to turn insane after playing for some months, but after almost a year in Atlasia I feel pretty confident about my relative mental (and political) sanity.

[Kitteh]

Didn't mean that the PU and Libs are similar in ideology or goals, that wouldn't make sense because a)the issues have changed greatly since those days and b)Atlasia isn't really about real-world ideologies. I meant more that they occupy a similar space in the Atlasian political spectrum. The fill the same gap for generally in-between-left-and-right party, which will by necessity of the demographics of Atlasia lean to the left a little in real-world terms. Thus they have a similar strategic-electoral position, as the rest of that post was about.

[TNF]

It seems to me like the libertarian wing of the Federalists is slowly overtaking the older, "Big Government Conservative" wing of the party, as evidenced by the recent victories of Maxwell and Spiral, the nomination of Rooney for Senate, and the retirement of TJ, Hagrid, etc. It seems like both Labor and the Federalists are becoming more ideologically similar than they have ever been before.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

No one is mentioning The People's Party!

The People's Party continues its tradition of success. We've elected two presidents since disbursing into the wild, although our usual stranglehold on the senate has fallen to the waste side. Who knows what will happen next!

[sentinel]

I was one of Wolfentoad's recruits. Not sure what that says.

[Maxwell]

The major story is that the Federalists moved to the Center/Left for the Duke nomination. While that is correct, something that is missed is some changes to Labor. While Griffin is as Labor as it gets, if you looked at the nominees proposals, Dr. Cynic's proposals were a bit more to the right of Labor (4 regions instead of 3, voted for Goldwater's Free Enterprise areas, ect.). Then again, Labor has nominated more regionalist nominees before (Marokai), but it seemed sort of a surprise that Dr. Cynic endorsed those policies, especially considering where the national conversation is.

[GAworth]

I kinda agree with Kitteh. However, I have to say that there seems to be a second string of factors into elections and the personality, some groups have built an "anti-PRO" or "anti-Labor" or "anti-Fed" to where even if they agree with them more, due to personality clashes, they will vote for a party they disagree with more on issues, but have no personality clashes. That is what I saw in the last election.

[President Tyrion]

I disagree with the assertion that the Progressive Union is "extremely similar" to the Liberal Party. They'll evolve - as all parties in Atlasia inevitably do - but for now they've established a much bigger tent than the Liberals ever had.

For instance, I can't imagine someone like Lumine, a socially moderate-to-conservative centrist, joining the Liberals. And several other PRO members seem to be well to the left of many Laborites. While Wolfentoad's recruitment was indiscriminate, the most active members of the Liberal Party usually fell on a fairly narrow portion of the political spectrum - socially liberal, moderate on economic issues, and generally supportive of free trade and military non-interventionism.

This is because the PRO isn't really organized around a political ideology. The party exists for one reason - to wrest power from the emergent "duopoly." They're a bit like Italy's Five Star Movement, and the party consists largely of people who feel locked out of Labor, the Federalists, or both.

(I'm sure that some members of the party see things differently, and they should feel free to correct me if they do.)

It's hard to judge one's own party, but that analysis looks quite accurate. Political ideology is not that important in Atlasia, so our party is based on preventing a two-party system and encouraging regional reform, which is the issue in which we completely agree. You might even say we're trying to blow up the Labor-Federalist duopoly system without going crazy and trollish like the NM-AM. Kitteh raised an interesting point, and I know I can't tell if we are going to turn insane after playing for some months, but after almost a year in Atlasia I feel pretty confident about my relative mental (and political) sanity.

I think the bolded statement is both incredibly accurate, and the source of much annoyance for a lot of Labor (AG and TNF have been incredibly vocal). There's no doubt that the Forum is a significant shift to the left relative to American politics, so there's not much doubt in my mind that a policy driven game, if the Federalists legislate to the right, would be dominated by Labor. I think a lot of the recent election can be understood in that frame (Feds shifting left, Labor electing policy wonks consistently, PRO striving for a somewhat apolitical middle ground).

[Adam Griffin]

It seems to me like the libertarian wing of the Federalists is slowly overtaking the older, "Big Government Conservative" wing of the party, as evidenced by the recent victories of Maxwell and Spiral, the nomination of Rooney for Senate, and the retirement of TJ, Hagrid, etc. It seems like both Labor and the Federalists are becoming more ideologically similar than they have ever been before.

I'm working on a new Political Matrix score average by party graph. Obviously that's not a great metric, but it's about the only one we can use. It'll be ready in a day or two. Hint/spoiler: Labor in and of itself hasn't moved to the right.

[President Tyrion]

It seems to me like the libertarian wing of the Federalists is slowly overtaking the older, "Big Government Conservative" wing of the party, as evidenced by the recent victories of Maxwell and Spiral, the nomination of Rooney for Senate, and the retirement of TJ, Hagrid, etc. It seems like both Labor and the Federalists are becoming more ideologically similar than they have ever been before.

I'm working on a new Political Matrix score average by party graph. Obviously that's not a great metric, but it's about the only one we can use. It'll be ready in a day or two. Hint/spoiler: Labor in and of itself hasn't moved to the right.

Are we talking about officeholders, or just everyone?

[Adam Griffin]

It seems to me like the libertarian wing of the Federalists is slowly overtaking the older, "Big Government Conservative" wing of the party, as evidenced by the recent victories of Maxwell and Spiral, the nomination of Rooney for Senate, and the retirement of TJ, Hagrid, etc. It seems like both Labor and the Federalists are becoming more ideologically similar than they have ever been before.

I'm working on a new Political Matrix score average by party graph. Obviously that's not a great metric, but it's about the only one we can use. It'll be ready in a day or two. Hint/spoiler: Labor in and of itself hasn't moved to the right.

Are we talking about officeholders, or just everyone?

Everyone with a PM score (30 people).

[President Tyrion]

It seems to me like the libertarian wing of the Federalists is slowly overtaking the older, "Big Government Conservative" wing of the party, as evidenced by the recent victories of Maxwell and Spiral, the nomination of Rooney for Senate, and the retirement of TJ, Hagrid, etc. It seems like both Labor and the Federalists are becoming more ideologically similar than they have ever been before.

I'm working on a new Political Matrix score average by party graph. Obviously that's not a great metric, but it's about the only one we can use. It'll be ready in a day or two. Hint/spoiler: Labor in and of itself hasn't moved to the right.

Are we talking about officeholders, or just everyone?

Everyone with a PM score (30 people).

Aha. Love your charts, by the by!

[Adam Griffin]

It seems to me like the libertarian wing of the Federalists is slowly overtaking the older, "Big Government Conservative" wing of the party, as evidenced by the recent victories of Maxwell and Spiral, the nomination of Rooney for Senate, and the retirement of TJ, Hagrid, etc. It seems like both Labor and the Federalists are becoming more ideologically similar than they have ever been before.

I'm working on a new Political Matrix score average by party graph. Obviously that's not a great metric, but it's about the only one we can use. It'll be ready in a day or two. Hint/spoiler: Labor in and of itself hasn't moved to the right.

Are we talking about officeholders, or just everyone?

Everyone with a PM score (30 people).

Aha. Love your charts, by the by!

FYI:

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Positive-S guy is ing things up. Who is he?

[Kitteh]

Positive-S guy is ing things up. Who is he?

mint :)