Pacific Council: Great Reform Amendment: Voting on an Amendment.

[Oakvale]

As my last act as Speaker of this council, I'm bringing the Great Reform Amendment, which will bring into effect a new regional Constitution, to the floor.

 

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Sponsor: Oakvale

Debate is now open!

[Maxwell]

it takes 2 out of three councilors to pass anything, period. Shouldn't a veto override be unanimous?

[Flake]

I'd like to bring this to a vote, seeing as I find nothing flawed in this yet.

[President Tyrion]

it takes 2 out of three councilors to pass anything, period. Shouldn't a veto override be unanimous?

It is required to be unanimous.

"vote exceeding 2/3 the number of Councillors"

[President Tyrion]

I'd like to bring this to a vote, seeing as I find nothing flawed in this yet.

I'm not quite ready for that yet. We should debate it for a good long while to avoid the issues of the Third Pac Constitution.

[Kitteh]

wow
such reform
much constitution
wow

[Sbane]

wow
such reform
much constitution
wow

yeah man just abolish atlasia

[President Tyrion]

We probably need to re-number the Bill of Rights in order to include the clause about suspension of Habeas Corpus. I don't think that's meant to be an extension on the ban on slavery.

I'd also like to see the Justice approve of the impeachment of a Governor, and I'd like to see a process for impeachment of a Justice.

[Kitteh]

wow
such reform
much constitution
wow

yeah man just abolish atlasia

wow so hate wow

[Sbane]

wow
such reform
much constitution
wow

yeah man just abolish atlasia

wow so hate wow

nah man no hate abolish atlasia now!

[Flake]

We should have a capital city, I have a wonderful list here of some cities we could choose:
Fairbanks, Alaska
Anchorage, Alaska
Seattle, Washington
Spokane, Washington
Portland, Oregon
Eugene, Oregon
Los Angeles, California
San Francisco, California
Boise, Idaho
Coeur d'Alene
Salt Lake City, Utah
Provo, Utah
Phoenix, Arizona
Tucson, Arizona
Honolulu, Hawaii
Hilo, Hawaii
Carson City, Nevada
Las Vegas, Nevada
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Las Cruces, New Mexico

I also think we should add an amendment when a councillor misses five votes, they are automatically recalled.

We should make it so people cannot smoke in public spaces and in restaurants and apartment buildings.

We should add absentee voting for regional elections.

We need to also add that consenting, adult, Pacificans can marry another consenting, adult, Pacifican.

We need to add that a woman is guaranteed a right to have an abortion.

[Sbane]

Don't change it from San Francisco!

[President Tyrion]

I agree that the capital should remain San Francisco.

I also think we should add an amendment when a councillor misses five votes, they are automatically recalled.

We should make it so people cannot smoke in public spaces and in restaurants and apartment buildings.

We should add absentee voting for regional elections.

We need to also add that consenting, adult, Pacificans can marry another consenting, adult, Pacifican.

We need to add that a woman is guaranteed a right to have an abortion.

1) I think that we can add a statement saying that the Council can legislate the meaning of "poor behavior" to the extent that it is consistent with the tone of the existing text. If that means 5 votes and you're out, so be it.

2) Banning smoking in apartment buildings should be left up to the landowner, and restaurants to the owner/proprietor. Banning smoking in public places as a blanket is a little dangerous, but we can make a more complicated rule banning smoking within x distance of a non-smoker, or something.

3) Is absentee voting really necessary?

4) Agreed. Perhaps we could widen the breadth of the current clause 13 of the Bill of Rights, like the US Constitution did, so as not to disparage other unstated rights held by the citizens.

5) The right to hold an abortion is important, and we actually included it in the original text. However, we need to be really careful about it, and it may be better served to be an amendment due to how complicated the issue is. I'd like to hear some opinions on it.

[Flake]

I agree that the capital should remain San Francisco.

I also think we should add an amendment when a councillor misses five votes, they are automatically recalled.

We should make it so people cannot smoke in public spaces and in restaurants and apartment buildings.

We should add absentee voting for regional elections.

We need to also add that consenting, adult, Pacificans can marry another consenting, adult, Pacifican.

We need to add that a woman is guaranteed a right to have an abortion.

1) I think that we can add a statement saying that the Council can legislate the meaning of "poor behavior" to the extent that it is consistent with the tone of the existing text. If that means 5 votes and you're out, so be it.

2) Banning smoking in apartment buildings should be left up to the landowner, and restaurants to the owner/proprietor. Banning smoking in public places as a blanket is a little dangerous, but we can make a more complicated rule banning smoking within x distance of a non-smoker, or something.

3) Is absentee voting really necessary?

4) Agreed. Perhaps we could widen the breadth of the current clause 13 of the Bill of Rights, like the US Constitution did, so as not to disparage other unstated rights held by the citizens.

5) The right to hold an abortion is important, and we actually included it in the original text. However, we need to be really careful about it, and it may be better served to be an amendment due to how complicated the issue is. I'd like to hear some opinions on it.

3. I think absentee voting will increase voter turnout in the Pacific and let all to have a voice, whether they have internet the election weekend or not.

[President Tyrion]

I agree that the capital should remain San Francisco.

I also think we should add an amendment when a councillor misses five votes, they are automatically recalled.

We should make it so people cannot smoke in public spaces and in restaurants and apartment buildings.

We should add absentee voting for regional elections.

We need to also add that consenting, adult, Pacificans can marry another consenting, adult, Pacifican.

We need to add that a woman is guaranteed a right to have an abortion.

1) I think that we can add a statement saying that the Council can legislate the meaning of "poor behavior" to the extent that it is consistent with the tone of the existing text. If that means 5 votes and you're out, so be it.

2) Banning smoking in apartment buildings should be left up to the landowner, and restaurants to the owner/proprietor. Banning smoking in public places as a blanket is a little dangerous, but we can make a more complicated rule banning smoking within x distance of a non-smoker, or something.

3) Is absentee voting really necessary?

4) Agreed. Perhaps we could widen the breadth of the current clause 13 of the Bill of Rights, like the US Constitution did, so as not to disparage other unstated rights held by the citizens.

5) The right to hold an abortion is important, and we actually included it in the original text. However, we need to be really careful about it, and it may be better served to be an amendment due to how complicated the issue is. I'd like to hear some opinions on it.

3. I think absentee voting will increase voter turnout in the Pacific and let all to have a voice, whether they have internet the election weekend or not.

I mean, I'm fine with the idea in principle, but it strikes me as a logistical nightmare. Election administration (candidate declaration, writing the ballot) would need to be completed a lot earlier to allow for absentee ballots to be filed.

[PJ]

Nice job Oakvale! However,  I do have several amendments.

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[President Tyrion]

For the record, I'm going to grab sponsorship of this since Oakvale is gone doing better things in higher places.

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For the record, since we have no real rules governing amendments, I suggest we act like all the other legislatures in this great nation and characterize amendments as either friendly or hostile, where hostile amendments (or friendly amendments which receive an objection from a third party) are put to a vote. In this case, amendment is hostile. I believe that we should curtail the ability of people to just randomly move into the region and claim an office immediately. We should hold a vote on this immediately.

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Amendment is friendly, and the other 4 Councilors have 24 hours to object.

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Amendment is friendly. 24 hours, etc.

[PJ]

For the record, I'm going to grab sponsorship of this since Oakvale is gone doing better things in higher places.

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For the record, since we have no real rules governing amendments, I suggest we act like all the other legislatures in this great nation and characterize amendments as either friendly or hostile, where hostile amendments (or friendly amendments which receive an objection from a third party) are put to a vote. In this case, amendment is hostile. I believe that we should curtail the ability of people to just randomly move into the region and claim an office immediately. We should hold a vote on this immediately.

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Amendment is friendly, and the other 4 Councilors have 24 hours to object.

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Amendment is friendly. 24 hours, etc.

My problem with this is when I first registered back in May,  a constitutional amendment failed in the region that would have passed if my vote had been valid. I don't really see how that is fair towards new members. Additionally, the Census Bureau's rule about registration regulations does regulate carpetbagging. The NMAM did get away with it, but they were effective because the region was dead before they got here.

[PJ]

I just noticed that there is nothing here in case of a gubernatorial vacancy. We should probably do something about that considering that we're about to have one. I won't introduce any amendments until I hear some opinions from Councillors. 

[President Tyrion]

For the record, I'm going to grab sponsorship of this since Oakvale is gone doing better things in higher places.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

For the record, since we have no real rules governing amendments, I suggest we act like all the other legislatures in this great nation and characterize amendments as either friendly or hostile, where hostile amendments (or friendly amendments which receive an objection from a third party) are put to a vote. In this case, amendment is hostile. I believe that we should curtail the ability of people to just randomly move into the region and claim an office immediately. We should hold a vote on this immediately.

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Amendment is friendly, and the other 4 Councilors have 24 hours to object.

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Amendment is friendly. 24 hours, etc.

My problem with this is when I first registered back in May,  a constitutional amendment failed in the region that would have passed if my vote had been valid. I don't really see how that is fair towards new members. Additionally, the Census Bureau's rule about registration regulations does regulate carpetbagging. The NMAM did get away with it, but they were effective because the region was dead before they got here.

Well, I'll let the Council decide. I don't feel entirely too strongly either way, but I can see the argument for both sides, and I'd tend to side with the barrier to entry.

I just noticed that there is nothing here in case of a gubernatorial vacancy. We should probably do something about that considering that we're about to have one. I won't introduce any amendments until I hear some opinions from Councillors. 

Yes. I'd suggest a special election of some sort.

[President Tyrion]

I have a bunch of amendments. Let's call PJ's amendments 1, 2, and 3, respectively, so I'll start with #4, just for clarity.

This first one is just renumbering.

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Next, an amendment to the impeachment process that will allow the Council to determine the reasoning for impeaching another Councillor (so they can legislate the 5 votes and you're out rule if they so desire).

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Next, an addition to the bill of rights concerning marriage. It'll go in at #16, moving #16 and #17 down to 17 and 18.  

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This amendment will slot in at #19, then.

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Y'all have 24 hours to object.

[PJ]

I have a bunch of amendments. Let's call PJ's amendments 1, 2, and 3, respectively, so I'll start with #4, just for clarity.

This first one is just renumbering.

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Next, an amendment to the impeachment process that will allow the Council to determine the reasoning for impeaching another Councillor (so they can legislate the 5 votes and you're out rule if they so desire).

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Next, an addition to the bill of rights concerning marriage. It'll go in at #16, moving #16 and #17 down to 17 and 18. 

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This amendment will slot in at #19, then.

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Y'all have 24 hours to object.

I find these amendments friendly

[Flake]

I'd like to amend #14 to cover all who enter high school below the age of 22, basically covering all people from age three to age twenty one because I know some people who dropped out of school during the recession, and they only needed one more credit, all of whom were 21 years old. I would also let it so all Pacificans can get their education by an online program called PVS (Pacific Virtual School).

[Flake]

I'd like to amend #14 to cover all who enter high school below the age of 22, basically covering all people from age three to age twenty one because I know some people who dropped out of school during the recession, and they only needed one more credit, all of whom were 21 years old. I would also let it so all Pacificans can get their education by an online program called PVS (Pacific Virtual School).

The Pacific Virtual School should be open to residents of the Pacific and anyone from 4 years of age to 19 years of age.

[PJ]

I'd like to amend #14 to cover all who enter high school below the age of 22, basically covering all people from age three to age twenty one because I know some people who dropped out of school during the recession, and they only needed one more credit, all of whom were 21 years old. I would also let it so all Pacificans can get their education by an online program called PVS (Pacific Virtual School).

The Pacific Virtual School should be open to residents of the Pacific and anyone from 4 years of age to 19 years of age.

Why don't we just make it people who haven't graduated high school?