MA: The Responsible Abortion Policy Act (Vetoed)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

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Sponsor: Mr. X

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The bill is pretty straightforward, but there seems to be a typo in the thread topic, Mr. Speaker   The People's right to file a petition has not been respected, so I believe the least we can do in the Assembly is give The People a chance to make their voices heard.  Although it is admittedly a poor substitute for holding a referendum, the debate over this bill will at least allow them to lobby their elected officials on this issue.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The bill is pretty straightforward, but there seems to be a typo in the thread topic, Mr. Speaker   The People's right to file a petition has not been respected, so I believe the least we can do in the Assembly is give The People a chance to make their voices heard.  Although it is admittedly a poor substitute for holding a referendum, the debate over this bill will at least allow them to lobby their elected officials on this issue.

Changed before I even saw this... my bad!

[Oldiesfreak1854]

This essentially defeat the purpose of the original bill, so I oppose it.  However, I wouldn't be opposed to the Assembly passing a resolution allowing a vote on it.  And if the people want to vote on it, then they can petition to have one.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This essentially defeat the purpose of the original bill, so I oppose it.  However, I wouldn't be opposed to the Assembly passing a resolution allowing a vote on it.  And if the people want to vote on it, then they can petition to have one.

We could pass this bill and then the region's conservative voters could petition to repeal it and we'd have a referendum on the issue anyway

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I fully support repeal.  Honestly though, if the only purpose is to have a referendum, I think we should have a referendum on the original bill.  Voters should have the chance to see the full text in its miserable glory, so they can make an informed decision.

Either that or we should add a clause to this bill stating that any referendum on this bill must include a copy of the full text of the original bill for reference.

If you want to introduce an amendment that added such a clause, I'd consider it friendly.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The amendment is friendly.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

FYI, the second clause is redundant to the Informed Voters Act.  I'd prefer to have clause 2 from this bill struck, so that it does not add confusion by making it appear that giving the text of the statute is special to this case.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Alright, we'll now vote on the final version of the bill.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote.

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[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Nay

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Aye

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Nay

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Ultimately, after a lot of thinking, I've come to a conclusion on this bill.  I wholeheartedly believe that abortion should be outlawed altogether (other than to save the mother's life); however, I think that this legislation only clouds the topic and is an unenforceable statute that women can easily get around by lying.  Therefore...

AYE

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 1.  The AYEs have it, and the bill has passed.  The bill is now passed onto the Governor for his signature or veto.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I call on Governor ZuWo to please veto this bill.  I just don't understand why it's a violation of women's rights to use sex selection in developing nations, but it's a violation of women's rights to ban them within our borders.  And don't give me the excuse of cultural differences; just because something is culturally acceptable doesn't make it right.  I'm not saying that those cultures are inherently bad, but it is one major flaw I see in them (just as every culture has its flaws.)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I call on Governor ZuWo to please veto this bill.  I just don't understand why it's a violation of women's rights to use sex selection in developing nations, but it's a violation of women's rights to ban them within our borders.  And don't give me the excuse of cultural differences; just because something is culturally acceptable doesn't make it right.  I'm not saying that those cultures are inherently bad, but it is one major flaw I see in them (just as every culture has its flaws.)

It's not, but the bill here is completely unenforceable.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I request a veto override debate and vote.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I request a veto override debate and vote.

24 hours.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Once again, I'd just like to say to Assemblyman JCL and Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 that voting against a veto-override is essentially an acknowledgement that you don't consider an abortion to be the same as murdering a newborn.  Heck, this bill doesn't even ban all abortions, so I'm a bit surprised to see folks like Assemblyman JCL essentially acknowledging there is no principle to stand on here.  As I said in another thread, if I believed abortion was the same as murdering a newborn (and I don't, ftr), I'd be appalled at the very idea that what this bill describes was an acceptable punishment.  I said it before and I'll say it again, if Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 and especially Assemblyman JCL (whose brand is standing on principle when it comes to social issues) then I don't see how either can oppose a veto override.  If they vote against a veto override, they're essentially saying "abortion is the same as murdering a newborn, but we should prosecute it like it isn't even a violent crime, let alone murder."  Honestly, anything less than Assemblyman JCL's recently defeated abortion bill is essentially an admission by its supporters that abortion is both different and far less of a crime than murdering a newborn baby.

[ZuWo]

I encourage the honorable Assemblymembers to vote against the veto override. While far from perfect, the bill makes sure that there are some minimal standards before an abortion is performed. Considering the consequences of an abortion I regard it as absolutely appropriate to require women who are intent on getting an abortion to have a conversation with a doctor beforehand. By keeping Oldiesfreak's original bill we can also highlight that sex-selective abortions are not acceptable in the Mideast.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Once again, I'd just like to say to Assemblyman JCL and Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 that voting against a veto-override is essentially an acknowledgement that you don't consider an abortion to be the same as murdering a newborn.  Heck, this bill doesn't even ban all abortions, so I'm a bit surprised to see folks like Assemblyman JCL essentially acknowledging there is no principle to stand on here.  As I said in another thread, if I believed abortion was the same as murdering a newborn (and I don't, ftr), I'd be appalled at the very idea that what this bill describes was an acceptable punishment.  I said it before and I'll say it again, if Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 and especially Assemblyman JCL (whose brand is standing on principle when it comes to social issues) then I don't see how either can oppose a veto override.  If they vote against a veto override, they're essentially saying "abortion is the same as murdering a newborn, but we should prosecute it like it isn't even a violent crime, let alone murder."  Honestly, anything less than Assemblyman JCL's recently defeated abortion bill is essentially an admission by its supporters that abortion is both different and far less of a crime than murdering a newborn baby.

The penalty I want assesed is one impossible in this game if you really wanna get down to it.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Once again, I'd just like to say to Assemblyman JCL and Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 that voting against a veto-override is essentially an acknowledgement that you don't consider an abortion to be the same as murdering a newborn.  Heck, this bill doesn't even ban all abortions, so I'm a bit surprised to see folks like Assemblyman JCL essentially acknowledging there is no principle to stand on here.  As I said in another thread, if I believed abortion was the same as murdering a newborn (and I don't, ftr), I'd be appalled at the very idea that what this bill describes was an acceptable punishment.  I said it before and I'll say it again, if Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 and especially Assemblyman JCL (whose brand is standing on principle when it comes to social issues) then I don't see how either can oppose a veto override.  If they vote against a veto override, they're essentially saying "abortion is the same as murdering a newborn, but we should prosecute it like it isn't even a violent crime, let alone murder."  Honestly, anything less than Assemblyman JCL's recently defeated abortion bill is essentially an admission by its supporters that abortion is both different and far less of a crime than murdering a newborn baby.

The penalty I want assesed is one impossible in this game if you really wanna get down to it.

But why settle for this if you truly believe abortion is the same as murdering a newborn?  Surely, you could keep fighting for the penalty you believe to be appropriate rather than settling for this.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Once again, I'd just like to say to Assemblyman JCL and Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 that voting against a veto-override is essentially an acknowledgement that you don't consider an abortion to be the same as murdering a newborn.  Heck, this bill doesn't even ban all abortions, so I'm a bit surprised to see folks like Assemblyman JCL essentially acknowledging there is no principle to stand on here.  As I said in another thread, if I believed abortion was the same as murdering a newborn (and I don't, ftr), I'd be appalled at the very idea that what this bill describes was an acceptable punishment.  I said it before and I'll say it again, if Assemblyman Oldiesfreak1854 and especially Assemblyman JCL (whose brand is standing on principle when it comes to social issues) then I don't see how either can oppose a veto override.  If they vote against a veto override, they're essentially saying "abortion is the same as murdering a newborn, but we should prosecute it like it isn't even a violent crime, let alone murder."  Honestly, anything less than Assemblyman JCL's recently defeated abortion bill is essentially an admission by its supporters that abortion is both different and far less of a crime than murdering a newborn baby.

The penalty I want assesed is one impossible in this game if you really wanna get down to it.

But why settle for this if you truly believe abortion is the same as murdering a newborn?  Surely, you could keep fighting for the penalty you believe to be appropriate rather than settling for this.

While I may support the death penalty for unrepentant murders, the Atlasian Constitution has banned it. I was trying to work within the framework of Atlasian Law.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I was trying to get it passed.  I knew it would be controversial if we prosecuted it like a violent crime, and I thought that was a decent compromise.  But people think it's extreme anyway.  I just don't get it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

We will now vote to override Governor ZuWo's veto.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote.