German Elections & Politics

[DavidB.]

Green Party says it will only be part of a coalition if the legalization of gay marriage is guaranteed: http://www.dw.com/en/german-greens-make-same-sex-marriage-guarantee-condition-of-coalition/a-39294421

Good for them. It's getting ridiculous.

[Kingpoleon]

Green Party says it will only be part of a coalition if the legalization of gay marriage is guaranteed: http://www.dw.com/en/german-greens-make-same-sex-marriage-guarantee-condition-of-coalition/a-39294421

Good for them. It's getting ridiculous.

I am definitely rooting for CDU/CSU-FDP-Greens, now.

[Kamala]

Green Party says it will only be part of a coalition if the legalization of gay marriage is guaranteed: http://www.dw.com/en/german-greens-make-same-sex-marriage-guarantee-condition-of-coalition/a-39294421

Good for them. It's getting ridiculous.

I am definitely rooting for CDU/CSU-FDP-Greens, now.

I hope that CDU-FDP isn't enough for a majority, but CDU-Greens is. Black-Green is my favorite coalition.

[DavidB.]

The new AfD campaign posters (... are far more aggressive than the FPÖ-posters so far):
[snip]

This is not more aggressive than "Heimatliebe statt Marokkaner-Diebe" or "Mehr Mut für unser Wiener Blut" or "Wien darf nicht Istanbul werden" or "Abendland in Christenhand"... Or do you mean this year's FPÖ campaign?

[TheSaint250]

I'm rooting for a CDU/CSU-FDP coalition.

I've really taken a liking to the FDP and favor it over the CDU/CSU

[Tender Branson]

The new AfD campaign posters (... are far more aggressive than the FPÖ-posters so far):
[snip]

This is not more aggressive than "Heimatliebe statt Marokkaner-Diebe" or "Mehr Mut für unser Wiener Blut" or "Wien darf nicht Istanbul werden" or "Abendland in Christenhand"... Or do you mean this year's FPÖ campaign?

This year's of course ...

The slogans you quote are 10 years old already.

[SNJ1985]

  That first poster is taken from the Polish government playbook, in that Szydlo's government has rejected taking in non-European migrants, and instead have passed the Family 500+ law with the direct idea of raising the Polish population through a higher birth rate rather than through immigration.

All European countries should follow that approach.

[Tender Branson]

3 federal election polls for the states of Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt and Thüringen:



2013 Sachsen result:

43% CDU
20% Left
15% SPD
  7% AfD
  5% Greens
  3% FDP
  8% Others



2013 Sachsen-Anhalt result:

41% CDU
24% Left
18% SPD
  4% AfD
  4% Greens
  3% FDP
  6% Others



2013 Thüringen result:

39% CDU
23% Left
16% SPD
  6% AfD
  5% Greens
  3% FDP
  8% Others

[Tender Branson]

Left-wing parties losing an average of 10% compared with 2013.

Right-wing parties gaining an average of 14% compared with 2013, also because of "others" who are shifting their way (mostly NPD in these eastern states).

[Zinneke]

  That first poster is taken from the Polish government playbook, in that Szydlo's government has rejected taking in non-European migrants, and instead have passed the Family 500+ law with the direct idea of raising the Polish population through a higher birth rate rather than through immigration.

All European countries should follow that approach.

How do you expect young people to have more babies than the boomers with lower living standards?

[Bumaye]

I present to you all 63 minor parties that applied for the Federal Election: http://www.wahlrecht.de/bundestag/2017/
 
My personal highlights: 
"DU: The Urban, A Hip-Hop Party" 
"V-Partei³: Party for Change, Vegetarians and Vegans" 
"Die Violetten: The Violets, For spiritual policy"   
 
I personally thought about voting for "Partei der Humanisten", a center-left party with focus on secularism, science and European federalism. Their tax plans are a little to centrist for me but their foreign policy is much more realistic then those of leftist parties. Unfortunately they are not on the ballot in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. That's why I decided to vote for Die PARTEI once more. I can't stand Die Linke's naive foreign policy and their open relations towards Moscow and by voting for SPD or Grüne I risk to be stirrup holder of Seehofer, Von der Leyen, Schäuble and all those other freaks behind Merkel.

[Hnv1]

I present to you all 63 minor parties that applied for the Federal Election: http://www.wahlrecht.de/bundestag/2017/
 
My personal highlights: 
"DU: The Urban, A Hip-Hop Party" 
"V-Partei³: Party for Change, Vegetarians and Vegans" 
"Die Violetten: The Violets, For spiritual policy"   
 
I personally thought about voting for "Partei der Humanisten", a center-left party with focus on secularism, science and European federalism. Their tax plans are a little to centrist for me but their foreign policy is much more realistic then those of leftist parties. Unfortunately they are not on the ballot in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. That's why I decided to vote for Die PARTEI once more. I can't stand Die Linke's naive foreign policy and their open relations towards Moscow and by voting for SPD or Grüne I risk to be stirrup holder of Seehofer, Von der Leyen, Schäuble and all those other freaks behind Merkel.

Has Der dritte Wege been banned?

[DavidB.]

I personally thought about voting for "Partei der Humanisten", a center-left party with focus on secularism, science and European federalism. Their tax plans are a little to centrist for me but their foreign policy is much more realistic then those of leftist parties. Unfortunately they are not on the ballot in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. That's why I decided to vote for Die PARTEI once more. I can't stand Die Linke's naive foreign policy and their open relations towards Moscow and by voting for SPD or Grüne I risk to be stirrup holder of Seehofer, Von der Leyen, Schäuble and all those other freaks behind Merkel.

At the risk of falling into the fallacious pitfall of "Communism/Nazism were supposed to teach Germans something" (analogous to the even more disturbing "Nazism should have taught the Jews something" line of reasoning that sometimes comes up in discussions on Israel), I have to say that I don't understand how Germans, after all of the horrendous experiences with non-democratic alternatives both on the left and on the right, can vote for a party like Die PARTEI that is intended to satirize politics but, by extension, inevitably satirizes democracy. I personally think voting for parties like these subconsciously leads to an erosion of trust in the democratic process with the general public and is more harmful to democracy than abstaining.

Edit: This is not meant as criticism, by the way... have held this view for a long time and am genuinely wondering how people like you, who are undoubtedly committed to upholding democracy, think about this.

[Bumaye]

Has Der dritte Wege been banned?

 
 
No party has been banned since the KPD in 1956. They simply don't run this election, neither do other quite well known parties such as the Anti-Islam party "Pro Deutschland", the Erdogan-allied "BIG" or Lucke's new party "LKR". 
 

I have to say that I don't understand how Germans, after all of the horrendous experiences with non-democratic alternatives both on the left and on the right, can vote for a party like Die PARTEI that is intended to satirize politics but, by extension, inevitably satirizes democracy. I personally think voting for parties like these subconsciously leads to an erosion of trust in the democratic process with the general public and is more harmful to democracy than abstaining.

 
 
Die PARTEI is not anti-democratic at all so I don't understand the comparison with the likes of the NSDAP and the SED. They aren't even particularly against the system, they just see flaws in the system and display them in a satirical way. Furthermore if you get a little more into the party it is pretty clear that they have a democratic socialist core and idea and I'd say the majority of their voters knows that pretty well. Also their elected representatives take their positions quite serious and work hard to do a good job. Satire is really only a means to an end. It doesn't erode the democratic system, it adds something new. Why must politics always be boring? In fact I think it can reach people and get them politically engaged who'd normally not vote. Some political scientists describe parties like Die PARTEI as a gateway drug into the political discourse. I think that's pretty fitting when you see that 7% of the first time voters in Berlin voted for them last year - more then for the FDP and equally as many as for the AfD.

[DavidB.]

I'm not accusing them of being anti-democratic -- obviously they are not -- nor am I comparing them to the NSDAP and the SED, G-d forbid. What I'm saying is that a satirical party like Die PARTEI may not solely channel cynicism about the political system but also cause it, and thereby inadvertently contribute to the erosion of trust in the democratic system. If 7% of first-time voters in Berlin vote for Die PARTEI, I don't know whether it should be interpreted as enthusiasm to participate in politics or as a cynical anti-system vote. It's pretty sad if many people feel that no serious party represents their ideas, and I'd much rather see them form a new serious party. Perhaps my line of reasoning is incredibly far-fetched but this is just my impression...

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... but this is a fair point

[Tender Branson]

Allensbach poll

40.0% CDU/CSU
24.0% SPD
10.5% FDP
  8.5% Left
  7.0% Greens
  6.5% AfD
  3.5% Others

50.5% for CDU/CSU-FDP
46.0% for SPD/Left/Greens/AfD

[Middle-aged Europe]

So, the messages from an internal Whatsapp group of the AfD Saxony-Anhalt have been leaked.


So, far it seems the worst messages exchanged in that group were:

1) A member writing on February 18, that "after taking power, a panel must screen and filter all journalists and editors. Fire the directors, ban media who are enemies of the people". In response, another member voiced concern that this Whatsapp group was "almost public" due to its size, and that caution is advised.

2) AfD state chairman André Poggenberg writing about "expanding the external borders", and "Germany for the Germans!"


Poggenburg himself has confirmed the authenticity of the leaked material. His defense basically was: Freedom of speech.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Some other quotes from the leaked AfD group on Whatsapp:


1) "I have four children. I won't leave them to the Musulman faith (which isn't one). I'm also a good shooter, hence a good hit rate. I intend to get a private gun license too."

2) "I'm afraid that the upcoming, massive, establishment-made mistakes can only be solved by "chambering a round" and not so easily."
Another member of the group responds: "I have to agree with you. But it's doable. All for one and one for all."

3) "Without taking over the media, you won't have power. ... We must infiltrate the media, otherwise it's going to be hard."

4) "The Allies are striking again and carving up Germany with the help of the established parties."

[Former President tack50]

So, the messages from an internal Whatsapp group of the AfD Saxony-Anhalt have been leaked.


So, far it seems the worst messages exchanged in that group were:

1) A member writing on February 18, that "after taking power, a panel must screen and filter all journalists and editors. Fire the directors, ban media who are enemies of the people". In response, another member voiced concern that this Whatsapp group was "almost public" due to its size, and that caution is advised.

2) AfD state chairman André Poggenberg writing about "expanding the external borders", and "Germany for the Germans!"


Poggenburg himself has confirmed the authenticity of the leaked material. His defense basically was: Freedom of speech.

To be fair, is that a private group of supporters, a group of the leadership, what?

Because if it's a private group of supporters then I don't see the problem. They are borderline neo-nazis sure, but you shouldn't ban an ideology.

If it's an official group they should be expelled, they've gone way too far.

[Middle-aged Europe]

To be fair, is that a private group of supporters, a group of the leadership, what?

Because if it's a private group of supporters then I don't see the problem. They are borderline neo-nazis sure, but you shouldn't ban an ideology.

If it's an official group they should be expelled, they've gone way too far.

It's a Whatsapp group called "AfD Info LSA", run by their state chapter in Saxony-Anhalt.

It's supposed to have around 200 members. The members of the AfD state executive committee (including the state chairman, one of his deputy chairmen, and the state treasurer) serve as the administrators of the group. Other members include the chairman of the Saxony-Anhalt chapter of the AfD youth organization, as well as several members of the state parliament.


The originator of these aforementioned quotes has been identified as Nico Backhaus, deputy county chairman of the AfD and federal police officer:

"I have four children. I won't leave them to the Musulman faith (which isn't one). I'm also a good shooter, hence a good hit rate. I intend to get a private gun license too."

"I have to agree with you. But it's doable. All for one and one for all." (in response to: "I'm afraid that the upcoming, massive, establishment-made mistakes can only be solved by "chambering a round" and not so easily.")

[Former President tack50]

To be fair, is that a private group of supporters, a group of the leadership, what?

Because if it's a private group of supporters then I don't see the problem. They are borderline neo-nazis sure, but you shouldn't ban an ideology.

If it's an official group they should be expelled, they've gone way too far.

It's a Whatsapp group called "AfD Info LSA", run by their state chapter in Saxony-Anhalt.

It's supposed to have around 200 members. The members of the AfD state executive committee (including the state chairman, one of his deputy chairmen, and the state treasurer) serve as the administrators of the group. Other members include the chairman of the Saxony-Anhalt chapter of the AfD youth organization, as well as several members of the state parliament.


The originator of these aforementioned quotes has been identified as Nico Backhaus, deputy county chairman of the AfD and federal police officer:

"I have four children. I won't leave them to the Musulman faith (which isn't one). I'm also a good shooter, hence a good hit rate. I intend to get a private gun license too."

"I have to agree with you. But it's doable. All for one and one for all." (in response to: "I'm afraid that the upcoming, massive, establishment-made mistakes can only be solved by "chambering a round" and not so easily.")

Oh, so it's official and involving high up people! Well I guess now everyone knows that the AfD has some sympathies for neo nazis.

[Tender Branson]

A new federal election poll for Rheinland-Pfalz also shows devastating losses for the SPD compared with 2013, just like the 3 polls from the Eastern states above:





If these recent results are accurate, the CDU could actually improve on their 2013 numbers Germany-wide, while the SPD could get an even lower result ...

[Zinneke]

Has Der dritte Wege been banned?

 
 
No party has been banned since the KPD in 1956. They simply don't run this election, neither do other quite well known parties such as the Anti-Islam party "Pro Deutschland", the Erdogan-allied "BIG" or Lucke's new party "LKR". 
 

I have to say that I don't understand how Germans, after all of the horrendous experiences with non-democratic alternatives both on the left and on the right, can vote for a party like Die PARTEI that is intended to satirize politics but, by extension, inevitably satirizes democracy. I personally think voting for parties like these subconsciously leads to an erosion of trust in the democratic process with the general public and is more harmful to democracy than abstaining.

 
 
Die PARTEI is not anti-democratic at all so I don't understand the comparison with the likes of the NSDAP and the SED. They aren't even particularly against the system, they just see flaws in the system and display them in a satirical way. Furthermore if you get a little more into the party it is pretty clear that they have a democratic socialist core and idea and I'd say the majority of their voters knows that pretty well. Also their elected representatives take their positions quite serious and work hard to do a good job. Satire is really only a means to an end. It doesn't erode the democratic system, it adds something new. Why must politics always be boring? In fact I think it can reach people and get them politically engaged who'd normally not vote. Some political scientists describe parties like Die PARTEI as a gateway drug into the political discourse. I think that's pretty fitting when you see that 7% of the first time voters in Berlin voted for them last year - more then for the FDP and equally as many as for the AfD.

I have always perceived Die Partei as the closest thing to a Situationist party. Those first time voters are too often described as anti-political when there is much more to them.

Also speed legalisation is an objectively good policy.

[palandio]

A new federal election poll for Rheinland-Pfalz also shows devastating losses for the SPD compared with 2013, just like the 3 polls from the Eastern states above:



[...]

If these recent results are accurate, the CDU could actually improve on their 2013 numbers Germany-wide, while the SPD could get an even lower result ...

These changes are not with respect to 2013 though. In 2013 Rheinland-Pfalz had
CDU 43.3%
SPD 27.5%
Greens 7.6%
FDP 5.5%
Linke 5.4%
AfD 4.8%
Others 5.9%

Hence the changes would be
CDU +0.7
SPD -3.5
Greens -1.6
FDP +4.5
Linke +0.6
AfD +2.2
Others -2.9

So the changes from the already weak 2013 result are negative for the SPD, but nothing like -13 percentage points.

[Kingpoleon]

A new federal election poll for Rheinland-Pfalz also shows devastating losses for the SPD compared with 2013, just like the 3 polls from the Eastern states above:





If these recent results are accurate, the CDU could actually improve on their 2013 numbers Germany-wide, while the SPD could get an even lower result ...

I'm hoping for a FDP/Green/SPD surge at the expense of CDU/CSU. It's the only realistic way to get a CDU-FDP-Green coalition.