Austrian Elections & Politics - Version 1.0

[Tender Branson]

This thread has basically become "blabla asylum seekers blablabla asylum seekers blabla FPÖ doin' good blabla asylum seekers blablabla FPÖ benefitting from asylum seekers blablabla" ad nauseam. Saddening.

This. I think Tender is wrong about the asylum seekers' issue, but what is most frustrating is how his asylum blog has become a replacement for analysis and discussion in this thread.

A) This is wrong, because I frequently post other stuff as well.

B) The asylum topic simply is the dominating and election deciding topic right now, even well ahead of unemployment and jobs, which should actually be the number one issue.

C) If you want to debate something else, just bring up the topics yourself as well and debate it, instead of bitching around.

[Tender Branson]

New internal ÖVP-poll for the Sept. 27 Upper Austria state election (by pollster M&R):

39-40% ÖVP (-7.5)
24-25% FPÖ (+9.0)
20-21% SPÖ (-4.5)
11-12% Greens (+2.5)
    2-3% NEOS (+2.5)

n=1000

http://derstandard.at/2000020168670/Oberoesterreich-Laut-OeVP-Umfrage-Gewinne-fuer-FPOe-und-Gruene

[SNJ1985]

The Austrian parliament has completed ratification of the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement.

[Tender Branson]

Because 4 former Team Stronach MPs have now switched to the ÖVP parliamentary club, a new poll shows a majority of Austrians in favour of banning party switching of MPs.

There has been a debate recently about banning the practice, because MPs are not directly elected - only via party list. The solution would be to force rogue MPs to step down, so that the party can substitute them with someone else, which also means they cannot become Indy MPs anymore.

The poll shows 52% in favour of a party switch ban and 32% opposed.

http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-ueber-verbot-parteiwechsels-5795880

[DavidB.]

Because 4 former Team Stronach MPs have now switched to the ÖVP parliamentary club, a new poll shows a majority of Austrians in favour of banning party switching of MPs.

There has been a debate recently about banning the practice, because MPs are not directly elected - only via party list. The solution would be to force rogue MPs to step down, so that the party can substitute them with someone else, which also means they cannot become Indy MPs anymore.

The poll shows 52% in favour of a party switch ban and 32% opposed.

http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-ueber-verbot-parteiwechsels-5795880

The same stupid debate as in the Netherlands. As if increasing party discipline is good for democracy.

[DC Al Fine]

Because 4 former Team Stronach MPs have now switched to the ÖVP parliamentary club, a new poll shows a majority of Austrians in favour of banning party switching of MPs.

There has been a debate recently about banning the practice, because MPs are not directly elected - only via party list. The solution would be to force rogue MPs to step down, so that the party can substitute them with someone else, which also means they cannot become Indy MPs anymore.

The poll shows 52% in favour of a party switch ban and 32% opposed.

http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-ueber-verbot-parteiwechsels-5795880

The same stupid debate as in the Netherlands. As if increasing party discipline is good for democracy.

I think it depends on the system. If you voted for Geert Wilders when he was on the VVD list, then it's fair to say he has an individual mandate and can jump ship. However if you vote for some closed list, what part does the individual MP have in that?

[DavidB.]

Because 4 former Team Stronach MPs have now switched to the ÖVP parliamentary club, a new poll shows a majority of Austrians in favour of banning party switching of MPs.

There has been a debate recently about banning the practice, because MPs are not directly elected - only via party list. The solution would be to force rogue MPs to step down, so that the party can substitute them with someone else, which also means they cannot become Indy MPs anymore.

The poll shows 52% in favour of a party switch ban and 32% opposed.

http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-ueber-verbot-parteiwechsels-5795880

The same stupid debate as in the Netherlands. As if increasing party discipline is good for democracy.

I think it depends on the system. If you voted for Geert Wilders when he was on the VVD list, then it's fair to say he has an individual mandate and can jump ship. However if you vote for some closed list, what part does the individual MP have in that?

You're of course right, but I think it's annoying that in this discussion, the party discipline argument is often overlooked entirely.

[Tender Branson]

New developments in the Vienna state election pre-campaign:

Even though the Team Stronach and the BZÖ announced they are not running on their own, they announced today that they will support a joint independent list for the Vienna state election, which will be headed by a pro-smoking lobbyist for the restaurant industry.

The list has already secured city-wide ballot access, with 5 Team Stronach MPs in the Austrian parliament signing the ballot petition. If at least 5 MPs are signing a petition like this, a list/party does not need to collect the 1800 signatures from voters that are needed for the state election ballot.

The program so far is unclear, but it will focus on "Swiss-style direct democracy". I guess they could take about 0.5-2% of the potential FPÖ/right-wing protest-vote.

http://derstandard.at/2000020496228/Wien-Wahl-BZOe-tritt-doch-nicht-an

[Tender Branson]

The Upper Austria-ÖVP is floating a new internal poll for the Sept. 27 state elections, which shows the FPÖ reaching yet another all-time (polling) high:

43% ÖVP (-4 compared with 2009 state elections)
28% FPÖ (+13)
16% SPÖ (-9)
  9% Greens (nc)
  3% NEOS (+3)
  1% Others (-3)

http://www.meinbezirk.at/ried/politik/rechte-ruelpser-loesen-die-probleme-nicht-d1437939.html

[Tender Branson]

Another Team Stronach MP, Jessi Lintl, bites the dust (for the moment, she'll not switch over to the ÖVP like the others recently, but remain as an Indy MP):



http://kurier.at/politik/inland/team-stronach-lintl-verlaesst-klub-und-wird-wilde-abgeordnete/146.360.379

What a joke party.

[Tender Branson]

The FPÖ creates another controversy with this campaign video by their Upper Austrian youth wing, which shows a swimming blonde and pictures of the asylum crisis, unemployed people, pictures of debt and tough, fear-mongering language:



http://www.nachrichten.at/nachrichten/politik/landespolitik/wahl2015/wahlkampfschmankerl/Wirbel-um-Wahlkampfvideo-des-RFJ-Oberoesterreich;art174294,1934232

...

The video starts with the blonde saying: "We are up to the neck in water !"

Then a voice: "The problems are becoming rampant ..."

"Did you know that 1000s of new asylum seekers are coming into the country, while politicians just watch it happen silently ?"

"Did you know that you will become foreign in your own country ?"

"Did you know that you could soon become unemployed ?"

"Did you know that you are indebted with 38.000€ ?"

"We are up to the neck in water !"

"The old parties are not solving the problems."

"Now, only the FPÖ helps."

"You can help too, come join the RFJ (= young FPÖ)."

...

Looks like the Upper Austria FPÖ is adapting the successful "Do you feel foreign in your own country ?"-strategy of the Styria FPÖ, which helped them win 26% in the recent state elections (up from 11%).

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

How many immigrants are even in Upper Austria anyway?

[Tender Branson]

How many immigrants are even in Upper Austria anyway?

According to STATISTICS Austria, 10% of the population in Upper Austria were foreigners on Jan. 1, 2015 - while 17% of the population had a migration background*.

That is slightly below the Austrian average of 13% (foreigners) and 22% (migration background).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Tender Branson]

Today was the last day to submit the signatures to be on the Upper Austria state election ballot.

The election commission said the following parties will appear on the ballot statewide on Sept. 27:

(by ballot rank)

1 - ÖVP
2 - SPÖ
3 - FPÖ
4 - Greens
5 - NEOS
6 - CPÖ
7 - KPÖ

http://ooe.orf.at/news/stories/2725843

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Interesting. How many of these foreigners are FPO disapproved or from a visible ethnic minority? (I don't think they'd mind at say, German expats)

[Tender Branson]

Interesting. How many of these foreigners are FPO disapproved or from a visible ethnic minority? (I don't think they'd mind at say, German expats)

Germans make up just 1.5% of the Upper Austrian population, or 1/7th of the foreign population.

I guess they are "FPÖ-approved" ...

The FPÖ is mostly against extra-EU immigrants (which became the dominating ones in recent years, while before that mostly intra-EU migrants moved to Austria).

[Tender Branson]

The Upper Austria FPÖ is indeed copying the successful election campaign of the Styria-FPÖ, using a two-pronged approach:

* The regular FPÖ appears very moderate on their recent election posters, trying to appeal to all kinds of voters, like workers, employers, families, retired people etc. => the centrist protest vote. While not even mentioning the foreigner/asylum topic.

* The RFJ (young FPÖ) on the other hand is taking the role as "attack dog", which takes up a hard line approach (see video on the previous page) and appeals to the right-wing of the party.

The campaign posters read:



"Fair wages, secure jobs."
"Because HE takes US seriously !"
"The people. The country. My calling."



"Supporting families, instead of weakening them."
"Because HE strengthens US !"
"The people. The country. My calling."



"Respect for the old generation."
"Because HE listens to US !"
"The people. The country. My calling."

[DavidB.]

"The people. The country. My calling."

Something about this tricolon just doesn't feel right. Maybe it's because it's the FPÖ, maybe it's because it's just a bit over the top, maybe it's because "Die Menschen/Das Land" is a bit too similar to "Ein Volk/Ein Reich", or maybe I'm just a bit allergic to overt populism - I don't know why exactly, but it doesn't feel right. Don't people in Austria think this is a bit.. awkward?

Edit: While thinking this over again, it becomes obvious for me that this simply can't just be coincidence. Ugh. Reminds me of why I hate the FPÖ.

[Tender Branson]

"The people. The country. My calling."

Something about this tricolon just doesn't feel right. Maybe it's because it's the FPÖ, maybe it's because it's just a bit over the top, maybe it's because "Die Menschen/Das Land" is a bit too similar to "Ein Volk/Ein Reich", or maybe I'm just a bit allergic to overt populism - I don't know why exactly, but it doesn't feel right. Don't people in Austria think this is a bit.. awkward?

Edit: While thinking this over again, it becomes obvious for me that this simply can't just be coincidence. Ugh. Reminds me of why I hate the FPÖ.

Of course they are awkward references to the Nazi era and most (non-FPÖ-voting) Austrians are well aware of the constant underlying messages that the FPÖ puts into their campaign (posters) and basically have gotten used to it. In fact, the FPÖ is well aware of what they can do and what they cannot do under the Verbotsgesetz (anti-Nazi law). They always find a way to phrase their underlying Nazi-rethoric in a way that does not bring them before court ...

[DavidB.]

"The people. The country. My calling."

Something about this tricolon just doesn't feel right. Maybe it's because it's the FPÖ, maybe it's because it's just a bit over the top, maybe it's because "Die Menschen/Das Land" is a bit too similar to "Ein Volk/Ein Reich", or maybe I'm just a bit allergic to overt populism - I don't know why exactly, but it doesn't feel right. Don't people in Austria think this is a bit.. awkward?

Edit: While thinking this over again, it becomes obvious for me that this simply can't just be coincidence. Ugh. Reminds me of why I hate the FPÖ.

Of course they are awkward references to the Nazi era and most (non-FPÖ-voting) Austrians are well aware of the constant underlying messages that the FPÖ puts into their campaign (posters) and basically have gotten used to it. In fact, the FPÖ is well aware of what they can do and what they cannot do under the Verbotsgesetz (anti-Nazi law). They always find a way to phrase their underlying Nazi-rethoric in a way that does not bring them before court ...

Thanks for explaining this. Wow. The absolute shamelessness of the FPÖ and its campaign is especially striking if you compare it to the extent to which this campaign would be frowned upon in Germany. (Quasi)-Nazism seems to have a much wider appeal in Austria than in Germany, partly - I think - because some Austrians still think they were in reality the "real victims", while for Germans, there was no way to deny anything.

I must add that I'm probably somewhat more sensitive to (and annoyed by) these FPÖ references because a part of my family is from Austria, they fled after the Anschluß. Most, however, didn't manage to, and didn't survive. I still have family in Vienna, a city I love.

[Tender Branson]

"The people. The country. My calling."

Something about this tricolon just doesn't feel right. Maybe it's because it's the FPÖ, maybe it's because it's just a bit over the top, maybe it's because "Die Menschen/Das Land" is a bit too similar to "Ein Volk/Ein Reich", or maybe I'm just a bit allergic to overt populism - I don't know why exactly, but it doesn't feel right. Don't people in Austria think this is a bit.. awkward?

Edit: While thinking this over again, it becomes obvious for me that this simply can't just be coincidence. Ugh. Reminds me of why I hate the FPÖ.

Of course they are awkward references to the Nazi era and most (non-FPÖ-voting) Austrians are well aware of the constant underlying messages that the FPÖ puts into their campaign (posters) and basically have gotten used to it. In fact, the FPÖ is well aware of what they can do and what they cannot do under the Verbotsgesetz (anti-Nazi law). They always find a way to phrase their underlying Nazi-rethoric in a way that does not bring them before court ...

Thanks for explaining this. Wow. The absolute shamelessness of the FPÖ and its campaign is especially striking if you compare it to the extent to which this campaign would be frowned upon in Germany. (Quasi)-Nazism seems to have a much wider appeal in Austria than in Germany, partly - I think - because some Austrians still think they were in reality the "real victims", while for Germans, there was no way to deny anything.

I must add that I'm probably somewhat more sensitive to (and annoyed by) these FPÖ references because a part of my family is from Austria, they fled after the Anschluß. Most, however, didn't manage to, and didn't survive. I still have family in Vienna, a city I love.

You are right: In Germany a party like the FPÖ would be under heavier attack from the media and the general society than in Austria. Not that the Austrian media and leftists don't try. They brought down Barbara Rosenkranz after all. But in general, the attacks by the media and the leftists lead to nothing and - like in the case of Donald Trump - only make the FPÖ even stronger than they would be without their attacks ...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, the 'first victim' myth has had some unpleasant consequences hasn't it?

[Tender Branson]

Yes, the 'first victim' myth has had some unpleasant consequences hasn't it?

The "first victim" myth is still strong among voters ... (at least 29% say "Yes", with a ton undecided or neutral about it).

A "Heute/Unique Research" poll conducted in May (for the 70th anniversary of the end of WW2), shows the following:

"The capitulation of the Wehrmacht on May 8, 1945 was a day of liberation."

53% Yes
  8% No
21% Mixed/Neutral
17% Undecided

"It would be about time now to draw a final line under the Holocaust."

52% Yes
24% No
19% Mixed/Neutral
  5% Undecided

"Austria was the first victim of Nazi-Germany."

29% Yes
22% No
32% Mixed/Neutral
18% Undecided

http://www.heute.at/news/politik/art23660,1156623

[DavidB.]

"It would be about time now to draw a final line under the Holocaust."
52% Yes

.................. :/ That's depressing.

(Might not even be that much different from the percentage of Dutch people who would say this, but still, wow....)

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Yes, the 'first victim' myth has had some unpleasant consequences hasn't it?

The "first victim" myth is still strong among voters ... (at least 29% say "Yes", with a ton undecided or neutral about it).

A "Heute/Unique Research" poll conducted in May (for the 70th anniversary of the end of WW2), shows the following:

"The capitulation of the Wehrmacht on May 8, 1945 was a day of liberation."

53% Yes
  8% No
21% Mixed/Neutral
17% Undecided

"It would be about time now to draw a final line under the Holocaust."

52% Yes
24% No
19% Mixed/Neutral
  5% Undecided

"Austria was the first victim of Nazi-Germany."

29% Yes
22% No
32% Mixed/Neutral
18% Undecided

http://www.heute.at/news/politik/art23660,1156623

...

Any crosstabs? Are these young or old people saying these things?