Battle of Hastings voted most influential battle in history agree?

[User157088589849]

1. Hastings - 1066
2. Stalingrad - 1942/43
3. Leipzig - 1813
4. Cajamarca - 1532
5. Tours - 732
6. Adrianple - 718
7. Vienna - 1529
8. Yorktown - 1781
9. Waterloo - 1815
10. Vienna - 1683

For me, the battles of Tours, Adrianople, Vienna were about survival of races. The arab world would have dominated western and eastern europe. Stalingrad changed the outcome of ww2 and gave the west time to prepare resources to other regions.

I don't think Hastings was that influential. The language didn't begin as a consequence of Hastings in fact it was a successful french invastion. The nobility of england was french and kings such as Richard I didn't even like england. The vikings and saxons continued to live in english society particularly in eastern england and the north and it was in these rural communities away from norman control that english as a language grew. The development of the long bow as a military weapon changed england as a nation not the battle of hastings.

[dead0man]

I'd put Tours, Leipzig and Vienna at the top.  I agree with you about Hastings.  I disagree with you about Stalingrad.  It was important, but the Nazis were done by this point whether they saw it or not so it shouldn't be that high.  Same thing with Waterloo.  Nap was a still a serious long term threat before Leipzig though.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I wouldn't call the Battle of Yorktown (1781) the most influential battle in US history.  It wasn't even the most influential battle in that campaign, which was the Battle of the Chesapeake, or of that war, which was the Battle of Saratoga.

Saratoga does have a claim to be the most influential battle in US history, but if one considers only the events that happened during the battle and not the circumstances that preceded it and led to its being fought, then it is hard to argue that the most influential battle in US history was not Seven Pines.

[Franknburger]

I think the list is missing out two important wars (though I can't name the decisive battle within each war):
1. The second Punic War, which made Rome the dominating power in the central and western Mediterranean. Without it, Mediterranean civilization would most likely not have reached Central and Northern France, England, and the Rhineland, there wouldn't have been a Holy Roman Empire, etc.
2. The Spanish-Portuguese Reconquista, which provided access to Arab astronomic and seafaring knowhow and allowed for European discoveries (including the American continent) and domination of global trade until the late 19th/ early 20th century.

As to the battle of Hastings, it did not only change British but also French history, because it lead into centuries of English/Norman - French wars. I wonder whether France as centralised, absolutist monarchy would have evolved without these wars, which also means there would have been a quite different French revolution (if at all), no Napoleonic wars, etc.

[Lief 🗽]

[obligatory complaint about how western-centric this list is]

[Franknburger]

[obligatory complaint about how western-centric this list is]

I agree. There is probably quite a number of Chinese-Mongolian battles to add, as well as stuff about Central Asia (Tamerlane-> Islamising Afghanistan & Pakistan, weakening the Golden Horde which ultimately allowed for Russian expansion into Siberia, etc.). Unfortunately, people in the West (including myself) are not very knowledgeable in this respect. Any effort to close such knowledge gaps is highly appreciated!

[Sol]

AIN JALUT, guys.

[User157088589849]

[obligatory complaint about how western-centric this list is]

I agree. There is probably quite a number of Chinese-Mongolian battles to add, as well as stuff about Central Asia (Tamerlane-> Islamising Afghanistan & Pakistan, weakening the Golden Horde which ultimately allowed for Russian expansion into Siberia, etc.). Unfortunately, people in the West (including myself) are not very knowledgeable in this respect. Any effort to close such knowledge gaps is highly appreciated!

stalingrad was about russian survival. I wonder how many people after ww2 wished hitler had defeated stalin and the red army.

[Velasco]

1. Hastings - 1066
2. Stalingrad - 1942/43
3. Leipzig - 1813
4. Cajamarca - 1532
5. Tours - 732
6. Adrianple - 718
7. Vienna - 1529
8. Yorktown - 1781
9. Waterloo - 1815
10. Vienna - 1683

For me, the battles of Tours, Adrianople, Vienna were about survival of races. The arab world would have dominated western and eastern europe. Stalingrad changed the outcome of ww2 and gave the west time to prepare resources to other regions.

I don't think Hastings was that influential. The language didn't begin as a consequence of Hastings in fact it was a successful french invastion. The nobility of england was french and kings such as Richard I didn't even like england. The vikings and saxons continued to live in english society particularly in eastern england and the north and it was in these rural communities away from norman control that english as a language grew. The development of the long bow as a military weapon changed england as a nation not the battle of hastings.

The list is redundant, to say the least. Leipzig (1813, after the Russian campaign) was more decisive than Waterloo (1815) in the defeat of Napoleon. The siege of Constantinople (717-718) was more decisive than the battle of Tours in stopping the Caliphate advance in Europe. Which of the two sieges of Vienna was more important? The one in 1683 was the last offensive effort in Central Europe by a somewhat decadent Ottoman Empire, whereas by 1529 that power was at its peak. In any case, I don't think those sieges or battles were a question of "survival of races". The Balkans suffered the Turkish occupation for centuries, but Greek ans Slavic peoples ans culture survived. In the Middle Ages, I think there were more decisive battles than Hastings as Mantzikert (1071), Ain Jalut (1260) or Agincourt (1415). There aren't battles of the ancient times as Marathon, Gaugamela or Carrhae...

[minionofmidas]

I think the list is missing out two important wars (though I can't name the decisive battle within each war):
1. The second Punic War, which made Rome the dominating power in the central and western Mediterranean.

That's because there wasn't one, the huge pitched battles (except Zama, but while that ended the war it merely confirmed - ratified, you might say - the Roman victory) being won by the eventual loser. All Hannibal's talent as a military strategist and leader of men could do is drag the inevitable out endlessly... which just goes to show Rome was the dominant power in the central and western Mediterranean already.

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Ourique? Las Navas? The conquest of Toledo changed the dynamics forever before that, firmly establishing the Christians as the dominant force in the peninsula, but it wasn't caused by a decisive battle.

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Having the biggest of their princes also control another, if smaller, entire kingdom arguably had more effect on French history than it did on English. Where, really, except for the extent of French borrowing in legalese, not much happened that wouldn't or mightn't have happened very similarly otherwise.
Though of course, the centralizing impetus of the later wars in France is as crucial in English history as in French... hmmm...

[Velasco]

2. The Spanish-Portuguese Reconquista, which provided access to Arab astronomic and seafaring knowhow and allowed for European discoveries (including the American continent) and domination of global trade until the late 19th/ early 20th century.

Ourique? Las Navas? The conquest of Toledo changed the dynamics forever before that, firmly establishing the Christians as the dominant force in the peninsula, but it wasn't caused by a decisive battle.

Las Navas de Tolosa (1212) had important consequences, though not immediately. That battle marked the decline of the Almohad Caliphate in Al Andalus and Maghreb and opened the gates of Andalusia for the Castilian troops. In the following years Cordova and Seville fell; in the east, Valencia and the Balearic Islands suffered a similar fate.

[afleitch]

I can't believe I'm posting this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPnP8jAttGo

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

[obligatory complaint about how western-centric this list is]

I agree. There is probably quite a number of Chinese-Mongolian battles to add, as well as stuff about Central Asia (Tamerlane-> Islamising Afghanistan & Pakistan, weakening the Golden Horde which ultimately allowed for Russian expansion into Siberia, etc.). Unfortunately, people in the West (including myself) are not very knowledgeable in this respect. Any effort to close such knowledge gaps is highly appreciated!

The Battle of the Talas River (the early Caliphate defeated Tang China and, while not pressing forward into the Empire proper, broke Chinese hegemony in Central Asia), the Battle of Ayn Jalut (the Mongol high-water-mark in the Levant), the Battle of Dan-no-ura (the Minamoto clan defeated the Taira clan for control of Japan, ending the Heian period--Japan's closest analogue of Classical Antiquity, basically--and the near-complete dominance of the samurai), the Battle of Yamen (the final defeat of Song China and the solidification of Kublai Khan's power in one of the largest naval battles in history--the Mongol fleet routed a Song fleet ten times its size), the Battle of Chuvash Cape (the first decisive Russian victory in the conquest of Siberia), the Battle of Hansan Island (Joseon Korea defeated Toyotomi Hideyoshi's Japanese force in another of the largest naval battles in history, stimying a conceived--though perhaps unrealistically so all along--Japanese conquest of both Korea and China), and the Battles of Geok Tepe (a Turkmen group defeated an expeditionary force from Tsarist Russia, which then conquered much of Central Asia in a retaliatory strike two years later) all come to mind from pre-modern/early modern Asian history.

[minionofmidas]

The Russian conquest of Turkmenistan and the massacre at Geok Tepe happened after the Russians had subjugated the great cities to the east ... it's the coda to Russia's conquest of Central Asia, not the opening act. It obviously massively affected Turkmen history, and also determined the location of Iran's modern northeastern border, but nothing else.

But this is a great picture.



They could be medieval knights, or unusually realistic cosplayers, but they're Turkmen warriors of the era. Yes, they're wearing chain mail.

[Lumine]

Stalingrad, Cajamarca and Waterloo have no reason to be on that list. They are popular because they meant supposed "last stands" or where the largest battles in a certain theater of operations, but they where almost meaningless in the strategic scale.

After all, some classic battles are more important, since several wars were decided by the outcome of a single battle. That said, most of them are still insignificant when you think about the context, and this happens with the most popular battles. Pharsalus (propaganda victory for Caesar), Carrhae (Gaius Cassius Longinus and Publius Ventidius Bassus defeated the parthians later, and it meant nothing), Cannae/Zama (glory moments for Scipio and Hannibal, nothing more), Teutoburg Forest (Augustus chose not to invade Germania again, and the battle was more of a morale blow).

Other ancient battles like Philippi (Antony/Octavian v. Cassius/Brutus), Aquae Sextiae and Mylae had far more important consequences.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The Russian conquest of Turkmenistan and the massacre at Geok Tepe happened after the Russians had subjugated the great cities to the east ... it's the coda to Russia's conquest of Central Asia, not the opening act. It obviously massively affected Turkmen history, and also determined the location of Iran's modern northeastern border, but nothing else.

True. The thing is that I'm unfortunately not too familiar with the earlier events of the Russian conquest in that area specifically, but actually, now that I think of it, it could perhaps be argued that Geok Tepe owes its significance indirectly to Chuvash Cape, which opened the period of Russian expansion in Asia as a whole.

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That's amazing.

[minionofmidas]

Stalingrad, Cajamarca and Waterloo have no reason to be on that list. They are popular because they meant supposed "last stands" or where the largest battles in a certain theater of operations, but they where almost meaningless in the strategic scale.

Stalingrad? Hardly. If you're looking for a meaningless last stand in that war you want the Bulge (though much of its popularity is simply due to the other side being Americans.) Germany was on the losing side before, of course, but Stalingrad ended all realistic hopes of a turnaround or an eventual Russian collapse. And also ended Hitler's popularity in Germany in a single swoop.

[Dereich]

Although I can't think of a specific battle name (I think it was a siege of Pavia?) but Pepin the Short's defeat of Aistulph is more influential than given credit for. Without the mutually beneficial alliance between the Papacy and the Carolingians which started there I don't see how Christian Europe emerges in anything like the same way it did after the papacy became safe and a temporal power.

[NewYorkExpress]

I'd include the battles of Verdun and The Somme... without the deaths of all the German officer corps during WWI, and other intellingent young people it's quite possible Hitler would have been stopped.

I'd also include the Battle of Midway and the Battle of Marathon or Salamis (from ancient Greece)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Although I can't think of a specific battle name (I think it was a siege of Pavia?) but Pepin the Short's defeat of Aistulph is more influential than given credit for. Without the mutually beneficial alliance between the Papacy and the Carolingians which started there I don't see how Christian Europe emerges in anything like the same way it did after the papacy became safe and a temporal power.

The Battle of Vouillé in 507 under Clovis I was more significant.  Had Clovis either lost, or had not converted to Catholicism from Arianism. it is quite likely that a decentralized Arian church would have become the standard in Western Europe

Not that it matters too much to me, as my Christology tends towards an Adoptionist viewpoint, not that Christology is a major concern of mine.

[minionofmidas]

without the deaths of all the German officer corps during WWI it's quite possible Hitler would have been stopped.

Wut?

[Peeperkorn]

Poitiers/Tours.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

The Triumph of Man O'er Beast would be the most influential battle in hist'ry.

[MalaspinaGold]

Perhaps the Battle of the Marne? I don't know that France could have held out much longer if Paris had fallen. Many say that was the decisive point of the war.

Not really a single battle, but the winter of 1941-1942 with the German army in the front of Moscow was probably also important.

[H. Ross Peron]

This probably provides a good base to work from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fifteen_Decisive_Battles_of_the_World