Bradley Manning wants to live as a woman

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How long does this hormone/ sex reassignment process take?  I doubt the other folks at Ft Leavenworth would be all that supportive during such a process.

[Sol]

This thread provides more evidence of why English needs a gender neutral pronoun.

We have "they" already.

[bballrox4717]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

While I fully believe Manning is a POS who not only endangered other people but likely led to their targeting by terrorists, you're spot on here about civil rights in prison. The idea of prison is to rehabilitate people so that they can reenter society without endangering themselves or others. There's a solid argument that Manning's confusion and exclusion in the military helped lead her towards her actions, and keeping her in a state in which she likely hates herself for being will never lead her to be in a fit mental state. I will disagree in that I think a hero will come from somebody who's fighting for Manning's rights as a prisoner, not Manning herself just because she is a transsexual in prison.

I do doubt Manning's timing on her official announcement; you posted that she was already identifying herself as a woman for months. Criticism that she's doing this for attention is completely legitimate; she's not going to have the same amount of media visibility as she does now ever again. You have to wonder why she didn't announce this before the

[ilikeverin]

This thread provides more evidence of why English needs a gender neutral pronoun.

We have "they" already.

Bingo!  Language will find an answer

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How long does this hormone/ sex reassignment process take?  I doubt the other folks at Ft Leavenworth would be all that supportive during such a process.

here's an article that talks about the process and the cost:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-manning-would-take-several-years/2013/08/22/7cdea536-0b42-11e3-8974-f97ab3b3c677_story.html

[Tetro Kornbluth]

This thread provides more evidence of why English needs a gender neutral pronoun.

We have "they" already.

Bingo!  Language will find an answer

Too ambiguous imho. I think I shall adopt 'ee' from now on to mark gender neutrality (at least on this board).

[Sol]

This thread provides more evidence of why English needs a gender neutral pronoun.

We have "they" already.

Bingo!  Language will find an answer

Too ambiguous imho. I think I shall adopt 'ee' from now on to mark gender neutrality (at least on this board).

English pronouns are a closed class.

What makes they too ambiguous?

[Link]

Ugh. Is he really this desperate for attention?

Well, yes, obviously. That's been a consistent trait of these "whistleblowers" - Assange, Manning, Snowden.

No one would be surprised if they listened to me over a year and a half ago instead of arguing.

Release of the Pentagon Papers... reasonable, well thought out, patriotic.  Manning's indiscriminate data dump... the work of a troubled mind.  That doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for him.  It sounds like the kid had a tough life.  But an example needs to be made.  The vast majority of what he dumped was in no way criminal.  Why didn't he just release the stuff he thought was criminal?  If he did we would be having a very different conversation.

It was pretty obvious from the beginning that we were dealing with a troubled individual engaged in epic attention whoring.  I'm not sure why some people wanted to romanticize it back then.  Nor do I understand why people are surprised with his current behavior.

[Lief 🗽]

...her current behavior.

[Link]

What is HRT?

Hormone replacement therapy.

Thanks, Nathan, I had no clue.

Uhhh... Transexual people using HRT is a tiny minority of the users.  It is most comply used by women in menopause to ameliorate some of the symptoms.  It is a major area of research and study and something the majority of women have to think about at some point in their lives.

It really is amazing how male centric this forum is.

[Sol]

What is HRT?

Hormone replacement therapy.

Thanks, Nathan, I had no clue.

Uhhh... Transexual people using HRT is a tiny minority of the users.  It is most comply used by women in menopause to ameliorate some of the symptoms.  It is a major area of research and study and something the majority of women have to think about at some point in their lives.

It really is amazing how male centric this forum is.

Um, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with this exchange. Grumps was unfamiliar with the acronym, and was asking.

[Cory]

...her current behavior.

Lol.

[Link]

What is HRT?

Hormone replacement therapy.

Thanks, Nathan, I had no clue.

Uhhh... Transexual people using HRT is a tiny minority of the users.  It is most comply used by women in menopause to ameliorate some of the symptoms.  It is a major area of research and study and something the majority of women have to think about at some point in their lives.

It really is amazing how male centric this forum is.

Um, I'm not quite sure what's wrong with this exchange. Grumps was unfamiliar with the acronym, and was asking.

It's just HRT is a far bigger topic than the minutia we discuss here and it is in the news quite a bit.  Just the idea that someone didn't know and that it was explained from a transgender niche point of view vs the much more important point of view that is pertinent to the majority of the population.  Just musing that if this forums gender demographics were flipped it would have been a very different conversation.  And it is nothing against Grumps.  No one else picked up on this strange exchange either.  It is the perfect argument for diversity.

...her current behavior.

Lol.

Yeah, I know.  I saw that and just chose to ignore.  Again the minutia that people obsess over here makes them miss the big picture all the time.

[Lief 🗽]

Yes, someone's gender is "minutia."

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

...her current behavior.

Lol.

Please contribute something substantive and worthwhile or don't contribute at all, Cory.

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

...her current behavior.

Lol.

Please contribute something substantive and worthwhile or don't contribute at all, Cory.

Don't encourage him to continue being himself.

[Link]

Yes, someone's gender is "minutia."

Yeah in a thread where people freely display that they are oblivious to an exceedingly common women's health issue while a bunch of people obsess about pronouns for less than .0001% of the population?  Yeah dude it is minutia in this context.

[Reginald]

It's just HRT is a far bigger topic than the minutia we discuss here and it is in the news quite a bit.  Just the idea that someone didn't know and that it was explained from a transgender niche point of view vs the much more important point of view that is pertinent to the majority of the population. 

That may be, but this thread isn't about that. Why is its use for menopausal women at all "pertinent" here when this thread is about a transgender individual? I haven't seen anyone here claim it's used only for this particular purpose (of course if I've missed it, I'd be happy to take that back), so I don't really get the objection.

[The Free North]

This thread provides more evidence of why English needs a gender neutral pronoun.

Hardly

[Link]

It's just HRT is a far bigger topic than the minutia we discuss here and it is in the news quite a bit.  Just the idea that someone didn't know and that it was explained from a transgender niche point of view vs the much more important point of view that is pertinent to the majority of the population. 

That may be, but this thread isn't about that. Why is its use for menopausal women at all "pertinent" here when this thread is about a transgender individual? I haven't seen anyone here claim it's used only for this particular purpose (of course if I've missed it, I'd be happy to take that back), so I don't really get the objection.

Because a lot of our political dialog is about freaking out about minutia while totally ignoring major issues that are applicable to the majority of society.  Everyone who went to pieces about a pronoun was strikingly silent about the way women's health issues were completely ignored.  That's the way Washington is run.  Primary someone because you don't like their pronoun choice.  I mean c'mon.  Again what I said wouldn't have been an issue if there were more women on the forum.  If you want to freak out.  Do it over something that really matters in the grand scheme of things.

[memphis]

I want to live as Indiana Jones.

[Kitteh]

I love how Link is now complaining about how male-dominated this place is.

[Link]

I love how Link is now complaining about how male-dominated this place is.

Now?!

Go back through my posting history.  I've pointed out the skewed demographics on this forum numerous times.  I made several comments in a thread about it last week.  Do I need to put it in my signature?!

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I love how Link is now complaining about how male-dominated this place is.

Our good friend, Link, has been combative since the very first day he existed on this forum (even before he was Link).  He's been a long timer though, and I still like him.

[t_host1]

..Oh, Barney!
    Fort Hood Hasan has summoned Obama to administer the vows of marriage for Manning and he and, also says, “He is looking forward to their honeymoon at Camp Mohammad”, the just recently renamed camp david

     ...not