Bradley Manning wants to live as a woman

[Sol]

Why must it become political issue though, if she doesn't want it to?

So annoying.

What's so bad about using the correct pronouns?

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

Why must it become political issue though, if she doesn't want it to?

So annoying.

How does it feel knowing that a woman has more balls than you?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Why must it become political issue though, if she doesn't want it to?

So annoying.

So are you, and now that everyone knows it bothers you, expect to see it constantly.  K?  Thx.

[Old Man Svensson]

Why must it become political issue though, if she doesn't want it to?

So annoying.

So are you, and now that everyone knows it bothers you, expect to see it constantly.  K?  Thx.

Brilliant.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

Who says he's fighting for those similar to him? As of now it sounds more like he just wants to solve a personal issue of his own instead of a crusade for all trans people.

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

Who says he's fighting for those similar to him? As of now it sounds more like he just wants to solve a personal issue of his own instead of a crusade for all trans people.

In practice the two are indistinguishable at this point.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Just go away, Cory. And please don't come back.

[Cory]

What's so bad about using the correct pronouns?

:rolls eyes:

How does it feel knowing that a woman has more balls than you?

*facepalm*

He's not a woman. This is physically demonstrable and is not up for dispute. If he had a sex change then yes, he would be a woman. But until then, no.

So are you, and now that everyone knows it bothers you, expect to see it constantly.  K?  Thx.

I figured this all along. Whatever.

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

How does it feel knowing that a woman has more balls than you?

*facepalm*

He's not a woman. This is physically demonstrable and is not up for dispute. If he had a sex change then yes, he would be a woman. But until then, no.

That's like saying that gay people aren't gay until they're in a gay relationship.

[Kitteh]

How does it feel knowing that a woman has more balls than you?

*facepalm*

He's not a woman. This is physically demonstrable and is not up for dispute. If he had a sex change then yes, he would be a woman. But until then, no.

I'm actually mildly curious here; what would you define "having a sex change" as?

[Old Man Svensson]

*facepalm*

He's not a woman. This is physically demonstrable and is not up for dispute. If he had a sex change then yes, he would be a woman. But until then, no.

The cisgendered ignorance is painfully strong in this one.

[Kitteh]

prison rape jokes are obviously the greatest form of internet humor

[Torie]

Let's see. Manning thinks he is a woman, but failed heretofore to do anything about it. Now that he is in jail, he wants the State to pay for it. Want elective medical care? Just commit a serious crime, and go to jail, and you can have it. What is wrong with this picture?

Manning is still merely 24 years old; these things very often take a good deal of time to process and/or come to terms with.  And I don't think that "failed heretofore to do anything about it" is an accurate assessment of the facts, either.

How old were you when you came out, again?

I decided that I was gay at 58, and came out at 60. I still have trouble with prisoners getting medical care paid for by someone else, that that same someone out of prison cannot get. If that is the case here, it bothers me. I don't like it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Regardless of your views on the issue of transgenderness, thinking that Manning's example will do anything to improve acceptance of transgender people is absolutely wacko.  If anything it will be an obstacle.

[bedstuy]

How does it feel knowing that a woman has more balls than you?

*facepalm*

He's not a woman. This is physically demonstrable and is not up for dispute. If he had a sex change then yes, he would be a woman. But until then, no.

I guess that's a type of definition of gender.  But, why are the semantics so important to you?  You basically have nothing to lose in referring to people with the pronoun that makes them feel comfortable.  Transgender people have a lot to gain if we treat them with respect and empathy.  Doesn't it seem like it's difficult enough to be transgender in American society?  So, even if you are invested in your definition of what constitutes a dude and what constitutes a lady, why not just let it go and use the gender pronoun that each individual prefers.  I think that's just the polite, kind thing to do, politics and criminality of Manning aside. 

[Brittain33]

Manning was in the service under DADT when she committed her crimes. Is it hard to imagine that if she hadn't done what she did, she would have transitioned once she entered civilian life? Or that she knew this would happen, but felt that announcing it during the trial or her incarceration when everything was so unsettled would be pointless because it would affect the trial and she wouldn't get treatment?

Oh Jesus dude just cut it out.

Have you met anyone transgender? Fundamentally it comes down to respect and trust.

http://www.wikihow.com/Respect-a-Transgender-Person

People don't announce things like this because it's funny, or because they want free stuff. Coming out as transgender is like coming out as gay can be for some and used to be for everyone, but even harder.

[Brittain33]

It is the cost issue Brittain33 - nothing more, nothing less. Was Manning able to have the DADT pay for it, while she was in service? If not, why should she get it paid for now, just because she went crimbo, and ended up in the can?

We may have a misunderstanding - by DADT I meant "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," which means that coming out as transgendered also meant ending one's career. Well, that's settled by the verdict and sentence, and so there's no point in keeping it secret. (Edit: someone else since commented that it wasn't about DADT but still she'd have gotten booted.)

It would be helpful if we could identify what sort of cost we're talking about.

Rather than get into the question about whether we should pay for inmate health care or not... do you think that this is the easy way to get trans surgery? I would think that in an alternate universe, she wouldn't have leaked to Assange and would have left the service, gotten a job, and paid for it herself, and been immensely happier than being in prison for 10-35 years.

[Jordan]

When I first saw websites reporting this, I seriously thought it was just snark.

[Middle-aged Europe]

To announce the intention to undergo a sex change a day after having been sentenced to a prison term is possibly the weirdest possible timing.

But this has been coming for a while now and (s)he should go ahead IMO.

[Torie]

It is the cost issue Brittain33 - nothing more, nothing less. Was Manning able to have the DADT pay for it, while she was in service? If not, why should she get it paid for now, just because she went crimbo, and ended up in the can?

We may have a misunderstanding - by DADT I meant "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," which means that coming out as transgendered also meant ending one's career. Well, that's settled by the verdict and sentence, and so there's no point in keeping it secret. (Edit: someone else since commented that it wasn't about DADT but still she'd have gotten booted.)

It would be helpful if we could identify what sort of cost we're talking about.

Rather than get into the question about whether we should pay for inmate health care or not... do you think that this is the easy way to get trans surgery? I would think that in an alternate universe, she wouldn't have leaked to Assange and would have left the service, gotten a job, and paid for it herself, and been immensely happier than being in prison for 10-35 years.

Yes, I thought it meant Dept of Defense or something, and realized what it meant later. I thought DADT was her military employer. You of course know my opinion of DADT - it was totally ludicrous and offensive and wrong.

I don't think Manning planned this all out obviously. It is just now that she finds herself in this situation, and can get some free medical care in jail, she is just going for it. I don't blame her, but that does not mean I would grant her wish if the surgery is deemed elective, and in particular, if it would not have been paid for by the army.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Yeah, the transphobia already in this thread is pretty awful.

In any case, I wish her luck in her transition. Hopefully, wherever she'll be imprisoned will let her have access to HRT (although probably not).

What is HRT?

Hormone replacement therapy.

Also, a lot of you people are being absolutely awful, but I say that more in sorrow than in anger at this point.

I wholeheartedly agree, Nathan.

[Ban my account ffs!]

To announce the intention to undergo a sex change a day after having been sentenced to a prison term is possibly the weirdest possible timing.

But this has been coming for a while now and (s)he should go ahead IMO.

As opposed to announcing it before when nothing she said would have been made public?

I think people need to have a realistic outlook here.  It's happening precisely in the only order or sense of timing that it possibly can.  Her life is forfeit to the state... don't blame her for the timing of this.

And it's not like this is brand new... there were inklings of her situation prior.

[tik 🪀✨]

Isn't it enough that she will lose 35 years of her life in prison? Why should she also be forced to also endure being psychologically unwell by being forced to live as a man? I'm biased, of course, but it makes sense to me. Yes, it costs the state money - but disallowing it amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. If you happened to have a chronic but not life threatening disease when you entered prison, would the services and medication you need remain unavailable? Only because people struggle to empathise with her specific condition do they question her. Some of you need to grow up.

[ilikeverin]

Let's see. Manning thinks he is a woman, but failed heretofore to do anything about it. Now that he is in jail, he wants the State to pay for it. Want elective medical care? Just commit a serious crime, and go to jail, and you can have it. What is wrong with this picture?

Manning is still merely 24 years old; these things very often take a good deal of time to process and/or come to terms with.  And I don't think that "failed heretofore to do anything about it" is an accurate assessment of the facts, either.

How old were you when you came out, again?

I decided that I was gay at 58, and came out at 60. I still have trouble with prisoners getting medical care paid for by someone else, that that same someone out of prison cannot get. If that is the case here, it bothers me. I don't like it.

Isn't that more a sign of the fact that the healthcare outside prison needs to be improved rather than the care inside prison should be?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

This thread provides more evidence of why English needs a gender neutral pronoun.