Bradley Manning wants to live as a woman

[Lurker]

I think he might very well need HRT to live a non-torturous existence in prison but I don't want to say for sure because trans* people's experiences can vary pretty widely.

Sorry for this ignorant question, but what does the asterisk in "trans*" stand for?

[Cory]

Also the word "fascist" has a definition and people shouldn't just use it as a blanket term for "anything I don't like"

[traininthedistance]

Let's see. Manning thinks he is a woman, but failed heretofore to do anything about it. Now that he is in jail, he wants the State to pay for it. Want elective medical care? Just commit a serious crime, and go to jail, and you can have it. What is wrong with this picture?

Manning is still merely 24 years old; these things very often take a good deal of time to process and/or come to terms with.  And I don't think that "failed heretofore to do anything about it" is an accurate assessment of the facts, either.

How old were you when you came out, again?

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Let's see. Manning thinks he is a woman, but failed heretofore to do anything about it. Now that he is in jail, he wants the State to pay for it. Want elective medical care? Just commit a serious crime, and go to jail, and you can have it. What is wrong with this picture?

Manning is still merely 24 years old; these things very often take a good deal of time to process and/or come to terms with.  And I don't think that "failed heretofore to do anything about it" is an accurate assessment of the facts, either.

How old were you when you came out, again?

For Torie   pub>gay

[You kip if you want to...]

*Yawn*

Yeah, still a traitor.

[Kitteh]

I think he might very well need HRT to live a non-torturous existence in prison but I don't want to say for sure because trans* people's experiences can vary pretty widely.

Sorry for this ignorant question, but what does the asterisk in "trans*" stand for?

Its used to indicate all the different things that may follow the term "trans". The general idea behind the asterisk is to show that "trans" is an umbrella term, that covers a lot of different types of people with different but related experiences; such as those who identify as the opposite side of the gender binary from what they were assigned at birth ("male to female" or the reverse), people who don't identify as male or female, intersex people (those who are biologically not strictly "male" or "female", i.e. those with ambiguous genitalia, xxy or x dna chromosomes, and a whole bunch of others). I don't use it much for simplicity but I definitely agree with the motive behind its use.

[Brittain33]

Let's see. Manning thinks he is a woman, but failed heretofore to do anything about it. Now that he is in jail, he wants the State to pay for it. Want elective medical care? Just commit a serious crime, and go to jail, and you can have it. What is wrong with this picture?

Manning was in the service under DADT when she committed her crimes. Is it hard to imagine that if she hadn't done what she did, she would have transitioned once she entered civilian life? Or that she knew this would happen, but felt that announcing it during the trial or her incarceration when everything was so unsettled would be pointless because it would affect the trial and she wouldn't get treatment?

Trans rights are like gay rights, only 20 years behind. Everything starts with empathy.

[Cory]

Manning was in the service under DADT when she committed her crimes. Is it hard to imagine that if she hadn't done what she did, she would have transitioned once she entered civilian life? Or that she knew this would happen, but felt that announcing it during the trial or her incarceration when everything was so unsettled would be pointless because it would affect the trial and she wouldn't get treatment?

Oh Jesus dude just cut it out.

[Beet]

http://transwhat.org/confused/
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/psychiatrys-new-normal-transgendered-persons/

Some people need to read this before continuing with this thread.

[Torie]

It is the cost issue Brittain33 - nothing more, nothing less. Was Manning able to have the DADT pay for it, while she was in service? If not, why should she get it paid for now, just because she went crimbo, and ended up in the can?


See Beet, per your comment, I went PC - just for you. But until she has the operation, I do have trouble calling someone with a penis a woman. But that is just me. I need to get over it.

[Lief 🗽]

It is the cost issue Brittain33 - nothing more, nothing less. Was Manning able to have the DADT pay for it, while she was in service? If not, why should she get it paid for now, just because she went crimbo, and ended up in the can?


See Beet, per your comment, I went PC - just for you. But until she has the operation, I do have trouble calling someone with a penis a woman. But that is just me. I need to get over it.

you might have just freudian slipped your way to the answer to your question, t-dawg

[Beet]

See Beet, per your comment, I went PC - just for you. But until she has the operation, I do have trouble calling someone with a penis a woman. But that is just me. I need to get over it.

Ah, thanks, Torie. But don't do it for me, do it for your own enlightenment. I had the same reaction as you until meeting some trans* people over the Internet.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I think he might very well need HRT to live a non-torturous existence in prison but I don't want to say for sure because trans* people's experiences can vary pretty widely.

Sorry for this ignorant question, but what does the asterisk in "trans*" stand for?

It's used as a shorthand for the fact that 'trans-' can be the first element in a variety of conceptually related words, most of which are at least somewhat controversial in terms of definition and usage. Basically, it's what at least the circles I run in have settled upon as a neutral indicator that the word can be expanded in a bunch of different ways.

ETA: I see drj got here first, and her explanation is better and more detailed than mine.

ETA2:

Oh Jesus dude just cut it out.

Glass houses, Cory.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

[Kitteh]

btw, DADT never affected trans people, and the repeal of it didn't either. The military position was and is that being trans and pursuing any sort of treatment (hrt, etc) is grounds for discharge and that people who are trans are barred from joining the military whether they stay closeted or not.

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

[afleitch]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

Maybe she just want's to get on with her life as best she can without being thought of as a hero. I never got the whiff of narcissism about her that you get with Assange but someone who obviously has personal issues which are best dealt with privately.

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

Maybe she just want's to get on with her life as best she can without being thought of as a hero. I never got the whiff of narcissism about her that you get with Assange but someone who obviously has personal issues which are best dealt with privately.

Yeah, that's all very true, but at this point its impossible for her personal life not to become political, for better or worse.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Also the word "fascist" has a definition and people shouldn't just use it as a blanket term for "anything I don't like"

Imprisoning someone for a large chunk of their adult life for revealing war crimes seems sort of fascist.

[afleitch]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

Maybe she just want's to get on with her life as best she can without being thought of as a hero. I never got the whiff of narcissism about her that you get with Assange but someone who obviously has personal issues which are best dealt with privately.

Yeah, that's all very true, but at this point its impossible for her personal life not to become political, for better or worse.

Why must it become political issue though, if she doesn't want it to?

[Cory]

Imprisoning someone for a large chunk of their adult life for revealing war crimes seems sort of fascist.

No it isn't.

[Cory]

Why must it become political issue though, if she doesn't want it to?

So annoying.

[bgwah]

All the newbs "outraged" would've just loved this place 9 years ago...

[Oakvale]

Imprisoning someone for a large chunk of their adult life for revealing war crimes seems sort of fascist.

No it isn't.

You should read Snowstalker's essay on why democracy is degenerate or something for an understanding of his peculiar perspective on "fascism".