SENATE BILL: Fiscal Year 2014 White House Budget Proposal (Law'd)

[Napoleon]

Nay

[TNF]

Hostile, for the record.

And Nay.

Nay

While we need to live within our means, cutting education is not the way to do it, especially in this setting. I would be all for some sort of reform, perhaps clamping down on the unions, but even then I would not be in favor of reducing funding, just using the money in a smarter way.

Gimmick alert.

[Sbane]

Hostile, for the record.

And Nay.

Nay

While we need to live within our means, cutting education is not the way to do it, especially in this setting. I would be all for some sort of reform, perhaps clamping down on the unions, but even then I would not be in favor of reducing funding, just using the money in a smarter way.

Gimmick alert.

Haha what? Obviously you haven't been reading my posts about the teachers unions closely.

[tmthforu94]

Hostile, for the record.

And Nay.

Nay

While we need to live within our means, cutting education is not the way to do it, especially in this setting. I would be all for some sort of reform, perhaps clamping down on the unions, but even then I would not be in favor of reducing funding, just using the money in a smarter way.

Gimmick alert.

Haha what? Obviously you haven't been reading my posts about the teachers unions closely.

Senator TNF doesn't like to miss an opportunity to throw a jab at one of his colleagues.

[TNF]

Hostile, for the record.

And Nay.

Nay

While we need to live within our means, cutting education is not the way to do it, especially in this setting. I would be all for some sort of reform, perhaps clamping down on the unions, but even then I would not be in favor of reducing funding, just using the money in a smarter way.

Gimmick alert.

Haha what? Obviously you haven't been reading my posts about the teachers unions closely.

Senator TNF doesn't like to miss an opportunity to throw a jab at one of his colleagues.

As opposed to Senator Tmthforu94, who simply thinks pretension is more important than making good policy?

[Maxwell]

Can we not do this in every single thread?

[tmthforu94]

Can we not do this in every single thread?

It wouldn't be necessary if Senator TNF wouldn't insist on spreading false information about others over and over and over again.

[TNF]

Can we not do this in every single thread?

It wouldn't be necessary if Senator TNF wouldn't insist on spreading false information about others over and over and over again.

I'm sorry that you would rather concern yourself with my behavior than debate what is being proposed here. Correct me if I am wrong, Senator Sbane, but "clamping own unions" means exactly what it says, does it not? I'm willing to debate this issue until the cows come home, but it's quite obvious that some people are more interested in my choice of words than they are actually writing good legislation.

[Sbane]

Yes, clamping down on unions means exactly what it sounds like. I know this may be hard for you to believe, but there are many out there who believe the teachers union is an impediment to reforming our education system. This is not a gimmick, this is something I have felt for a while now. Also, being nice to people usually works better than being a dick.

[TNF]

Yes, clamping down on unions means exactly what it sounds like. I know this may be hard for you to believe, but there are many out there who believe the teachers union is an impediment to reforming our education system. This is not a gimmick, this is something I have felt for a while now. Also, being nice to people usually works better than being a dick.

I wasn't born yesterday, but thank you for insulting my intelligence. And yes, I called it a gimmick because that's exactly what it is. No serious person can argue that teachers' unions are to blame for America's education woes. It's just another round of scapegoating from the right-wing who'd rather ignore the issues of educational funding and go after the underpaid, overworked teachers of this country.

Not sure why everyone seems to be jumping on me for "being a dick" when all I did here was call out what we all know is an obvious right-wing gimmick as far as education is concerned. Unlike the vast majority of my colleagues, which would rather pretend to be friendly one another in public while stabbing each other in the back behind closed doors, I see no reason to continue this phony pretense of agreeableness when some of the policies being proposed by certain members of the Senate (the Federalists in particular) are inhumane and would hurt the poorest of the poor while allowing the rich and well-born a free ride.

[tmthforu94]

Nay

[bore]

Nay

[TNF]

I'm proposing the "Let's not f**k over teachers amendment"

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[Maxwell]

I understand the level of vindictiveness towards my proposal. However, surely a 75% tax rate would raise far more revenue than we are possibly needing, especially with your cuts to the military (which I support). I know you like sticking it to rich people, and sticking it to them hard, but come on dude, tax rates should be as low as they can while being able to fund the government, and we are doing that properly.

[TNF]

I understand the level of vindictiveness towards my proposal. However, surely a 75% tax rate would raise far more revenue than we are possibly needing, especially with your cuts to the military (which I support). I know you like sticking it to rich people, and sticking it to them hard, but come on dude, tax rates should be as low as they can while being able to fund the government, and we are doing that properly.

I respectfully disagree, Senator. Tax rates should be a means by which to redistribute the wealth of society from those who profit from others' hard work to those who created that wealth in the first place, i.e. Atlasian workers.

[Maxwell]

I understand the level of vindictiveness towards my proposal. However, surely a 75% tax rate would raise far more revenue than we are possibly needing, especially with your cuts to the military (which I support). I know you like sticking it to rich people, and sticking it to them hard, but come on dude, tax rates should be as low as they can while being able to fund the government, and we are doing that properly.

I respectfully disagree, Senator. Tax rates should be a means by which to redistribute the wealth of society from those who profit from others' hard work to those who created that wealth in the first place, i.e. Atlasian workers.

From other's hard work? Don't give me that. Your definition of work seems to be that of pure physical endurance, stuff like manufacturing. That's not all work. It's not all, but generally, people who are earning on that higher level are working in a different way that still is hard work. And, in general, they worked harder or worked in a smarter way than most people to get there. 60% is enough.

Obviously, I object to this amendment.

[tmthforu94]

75% is reaching absurd levels - whether it be through a decrease in charitable donations or it's negative impact on the job market, this would be very bad policy for our economy, and I also object to this amendment. I don't think those on the right are being unreasonable for objecting to a 75% income tax, especially when you put into context what the rates are IRL. If anything, it's the opposite.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nay

I agree with Senator sbane that reform is more important then funding level, but we do need resources, which is why I elected to side with voting for the National University system last year despite my inclinations against the Feds doing that. When we reform the system, we can always shift the resources accordingly to reflect the new structure, even in one where the Regions assume more control and responsibility.

Just going after the unions isn't the purporse, but rather pursuing the needed reforms that those pro-status quo elements are blocking.

Amendment 57:02 has been rejected.

Aye (1): Maxwell
Nay (7): bore, Gass3268, Napoleon, NC Yankee, sbane, Tmthforu94, and TNF
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (2): TJ in Cleve and Xahar

With seven votes in the negative, the amendment has been rejected.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

TNF, if you want to split it we can proceed with the spending side now but I don't feel comfortable allowing an amendment that replaces a number in the budget with a letter. If things go sideways and we are forced to vote on the budget itself for some reason, it would be on the highway to the trash can.

Joyce was just confirmed and I plan on contacting him before I go off. Hopefully we can get the numbers we need rather swiftly and then we can proceed with changes to the revenue section.

[Sbane]

Yes, clamping down on unions means exactly what it sounds like. I know this may be hard for you to believe, but there are many out there who believe the teachers union is an impediment to reforming our education system. This is not a gimmick, this is something I have felt for a while now. Also, being nice to people usually works better than being a dick.

I wasn't born yesterday, but thank you for insulting my intelligence. And yes, I called it a gimmick because that's exactly what it is. No serious person can argue that teachers' unions are to blame for America's education woes. It's just another round of scapegoating from the right-wing who'd rather ignore the issues of educational funding and go after the underpaid, overworked teachers of this country.

Not sure why everyone seems to be jumping on me for "being a dick" when all I did here was call out what we all know is an obvious right-wing gimmick as far as education is concerned. Unlike the vast majority of my colleagues, which would rather pretend to be friendly one another in public while stabbing each other in the back behind closed doors, I see no reason to continue this phony pretense of agreeableness when some of the policies being proposed by certain members of the Senate (the Federalists in particular) are inhumane and would hurt the poorest of the poor while allowing the rich and well-born a free ride.

I thought it was a personal jab at me when you said "gimmick", which is why I said it was a dickish thing for you to do.

I understand your point of view, and since I graduated out of public schools not that long ago, I understand it is a very complicated issue. When I say the teachers union, I mean the union, not all teachers. There are many hardworking teachers who don't get paid squat. While there are other teachers who have been there for a long time, don't provide much value, but get paid very well. There needs to be some sort of merit pay, and higher pay for high school science and math teachers in particular. The union will not allow anything even close to that. Also, this is why I said that even though going after the unions might be a good idea, it is still not a good idea to cut funding to education because some teachers need to be paid more, while some need to be either paid less or fired.

[TNF]

TNF, if you want to split it we can proceed with the spending side now but I don't feel comfortable allowing an amendment that replaces a number in the budget with a letter. If things go sideways and we are forced to vote on the budget itself for some reason, it would be on the highway to the trash can.

Joyce was just confirmed and I plan on contacting him before I go off. Hopefully we can get the numbers we need rather swiftly and then we can proceed with changes to the revenue section.

I am fine with splitting it.

[Donerail]

Which budget estimates do you need specifically? The last several posts of debate seem to just be the same things from a dozen other threads. Do you need a revenue estimate for the new tax bracket or...?

[TNF]

Which budget estimates do you need specifically? The last several posts of debate seem to just be the same things from a dozen other threads. Do you need a revenue estimate for the new tax bracket or...?

Revenue estimate for the new tax bracket, I think. I mean the other numbers I crunched myself, so far as military and education spending are concerned.

[Maxwell]

Which budget estimates do you need specifically? The last several posts of debate seem to just be the same things from a dozen other threads. Do you need a revenue estimate for the new tax bracket or...?

Well, also Sbane's proposals.

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[bore]

How many people actually earn 2.5 million a year?