Pledge of Allegiance

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

With or without under God, it doesn't matter, that's not really the issue here.

I say no. Nationalism sucks.

[John Dibble]

I'm fine with them doing it, but they shouldn't be able to force kids who don't want to to do it.

[Moooooo]

Yes. 

[J. J.]

The operative word is "have."  No, somebody for either political, religious or even personal reasons shouldn't be required to say the pledge.  I do, but that is my choice.

[Gabu]

Forcing people to recite the pledge defeats the entire purpose of the pledge.  No, it should not be required.

[Alcon]

As a high school student, I honestly do not care. It has something that has been forced into my head for such a long period of time I can literally just say it without really saying words - they are just sounds I have gotten used to reciting after 9 years of doing so.

No kid should be forced to say the Pledge, but I do - in its entirety - as a matter of respect.

I voted yes on the poll before reading the conversation. My answer to the question of kids being forced to say it is no; my answer to the question of it being recited over the P.A. system is yes.

And "nationalism," BRTD, is what founded this country and what stops it from collapsing.

[danwxman]

I'm fine with them doing it, but they shouldn't be able to force kids who don't want to to do it.

Agree 100%

[KEmperor]

Have them do it, sure.  Children should be free to opt out, of course.

[opebo]

With or without under God, it doesn't matter, that's not really the issue here.

I say no. Nationalism sucks.

Correct BRTD, nationalism sucks, and the pledge should be tossed out.

A nationalist is like a religious - he believes something for which there is no evidence.  However unlike a religious all he has to do is go to Europe to see that it is better there.

[angus]

I gotta say, I'm with the republican wing of the republican party on this one.  Let the little bastards learn a little civic pride.

[opebo]

I gotta say, I'm with the republican wing of the republican party on this one.  Let the little bastards learn a little civic pride.

Obviously it will tend to have the opposite effect.

[Gabu]

I gotta say, I'm with the republican wing of the republican party on this one.  Let the little bastards learn a little civic pride.

How does being forced to pledge allegiance to a country make you more proud of it?

It seems to me that it'd be better to say why they should pledge allegiance to the flag.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Dems, listen up, cause you are playing with fire and don't even know it.  If your only new ideas are homosexual marriage and doing away with the pledge of allegiance, then your party is history!

It is sooooooo easy for the GOP to create wedge issues.  You have already lost the Catholic vote and the rural vote...and (very) soon you will lose the Hispanic vote.

You are stagnant and that makes you extremely predictable, which makes you vulnerable.

[Gabu]

Dems, listen up, cause you are playing with fire and don't even know it.  If your only new ideas are homosexual marriage and doing away with the pledge of allegiance, then your party is history!

It is sooooooo easy for the GOP to create wedge issues.  You have already lost the Catholic vote and the rural vote...and (very) soon you will lose the Hispanic vote.

You are stagnant and that makes you extremely predictable, which makes you venerable.

Um, who here has stated "I want the pledge of allegiance to be abolished"?

[Akno21]

Early on, the kid is simply doing what he is told, and he shouldn't say the pledge because his kindergarten teacher tells him to. Blind nationalism is not a good thing, and that is what the pledge is early on. Of course, there's plenty of time to change since first grade.

It really serves no purpose as far as I'm concerned. If you really want to tell kids how great the USA is, go ahead, there are plenty of examples, the Marshall Plan and WW2 sticks out.

I applaud any athletes who don't say it and get harassed by fans, way to stand up for what you believe in!

I'd rather not pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth anyway. I don't say it as my way of protesting the policies we have, and no one's said a word to me about it, which frustrates me because I want to get in a big argument over it, but no one notices

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Um, who here has stated "I want the pledge of allegiance to be abolished"?

Isn't that the message most people get from the Dem party?  Do you really think most people preceive doing away with "under God" as simply an attack on religion?

The message from the Dem party to rural America is this: We are against American traditions.

Do you not know that when you fight against issues like new Walmarts stores that you are fighting against the vast majority of consumers, since the vast majority of consumers absolutely LOVE Walmart?

Are you next going to fight against apple pie?

[Akno21]

Um, who here has stated "I want the pledge of allegiance to be abolished"?

Isn't that the message most people get from the Dem party?  Do you really think most people preceive doing away with "under God" as simply an attack on religion?

The message from the Dem party to rural America is this: We are against American traditions.

Do you not know that when you fight against issues like new Walmarts stores that you are fighting against the vast majority of consumers, since the vast majority of consumers absolutely LOVE Walmart?

Are you next going to fight against apple pie?

If the companies put bad ingredients in it and don't tell the consumer, then yes.

"American values"- How is "middle america" in a small rural town with a walmart any more american than Upper East side Manhattan or Palo Alto? Since when is the only true, "American" traditions those held by the people in the heartland. Those living on the coasts are just as American as those in Iowa.

I think 90% of the nation supported keeping under god in, so I think the Democrats did too. Plus all the congressional people got up and defended it, so all the congressmen wanted under god as well.

[Gabu]

Um, who here has stated "I want the pledge of allegiance to be abolished"?

Isn't that the message most people get from the Dem party?  Do you really think most people preceive doing away with "under God" as simply an attack on religion?

The message from the Dem party to rural America is this: We are against American traditions.

Do you not know that when you fight against issues like new Walmarts stores that you are fighting against the vast majority of consumers, since the vast majority of consumers absolutely LOVE Walmart?

Are you next going to fight against apple pie?

What does that have to do with this topic?  The question is whether or not kids should be required to say the pledge, not whether "under God" should be in it.

[KentonNgo]

We can drill it into the kids heads every single damn day, but will it mean anything to them?

Is it just a meaningless civic recitation? To stand up there and say all these wonderful things to a piece of cloth?

I don't really mind it, it really can't hurt. It probably would be better to get the kids to think about how we can acheive "liberty and justice for all" and not simply say we have it, because we still have some work to do on the matter.

[Nym90]

I don't support it being recited. Patriotism is meaningless if it is forced; the right to not be patriotic is one of the most important ones that the flag and this nation stands for.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

What does that have to do with this topic?  The question is whether or not kids should be required to say the pledge, not whether "under God" should be in it.

Because the vast majority of Americans support both the pledge being recited and the prepositional phrase "under God".  Any attempt to question either breeds mistrust.  A smart politician understands the values of middle America.

[nclib]

Children should neither be forced nor pressured to say it.

[opebo]

Dems, listen up, cause you are playing with fire and don't even know it.  If your only new ideas are homosexual marriage and doing away with the pledge of allegiance, then your party is history!

It is sooooooo easy for the GOP to create wedge issues.  You have already lost the Catholic vote and the rural vote...and (very) soon you will lose the Hispanic vote.

You are stagnant and that makes you extremely predictable, which makes you vulnerable.

The Democratic Party stands for principles like tolerance and individual rights - and I agree that is a vulnerable stance in a nation of hate-filled intolerant religious.  But what can we do?  Pretend to be stupid?  I doubt we'll ever be able to compete with the real thing on the other side.

[Akno21]

What does that have to do with this topic?  The question is whether or not kids should be required to say the pledge, not whether "under God" should be in it.

Because the vast majority of Americans support both the pledge being recited and the prepositional phrase "under God".  Any attempt to question either breeds mistrust.  A smart politician understands the values of middle America.

Why are the values of middle America more important than the values of the West Coast or the values of the Northeast?

[dazzleman]

What does that have to do with this topic?  The question is whether or not kids should be required to say the pledge, not whether "under God" should be in it.

Because the vast majority of Americans support both the pledge being recited and the prepositional phrase "under God".  Any attempt to question either breeds mistrust.  A smart politician understands the values of middle America.

Why are the values of middle America more important than the values of the West Coast or the values of the Northeast?

Akno, about 90% of the people favor keeping "under God" in the pledge.  That's a lot more than middle America.  And it's highly dangerous to say that the coastal areas should have different values than middle America.  It's better to say we have similar values, with emphasis in different areas, and different ideas about how to reach similar goals.

To argue against the pledge of allegiance is to argue against American values, not middle American, versus "coastal elite," values.  Are you saying that those on the coasts are not Americans?  I have to say - many liberals don't act like Americans really, so you're onto something.

I think every child should be taught the pledge of allegiance, and it should be said in school preferably daily, but at least at regular intervals.  I deeply believe in the ideals expressed by the pledge, and every American should, regardless of political affiliation.  Obviously, anybody who doesn't want to say it can't be forced.  Words can't be forced out of our mouths.  But all kids should be exposed to the ideals of the pledge.  If they reject them, it's their loss.