India 2014

[FredLindq]

But why is not Bihar and UP part of Hindu heartland? Why will not BJP win in Karntaka new when their drop outs Will rejoin them?

[Хahar 🤔]

Bihar and especially UP are dominated by minority politics; BSP and SP in UP and JD(U) and RJD in Bihar all draw their primary support from minority groups such as backward castes and Muslims. Naturally, these are not groups to whom the Hindutva message appeals, and the choice of Modi will make it particularly difficult for the BJP to get the allies it needs to win seats in those areas.

[minionofmidas]

Of course the obvious question I ask is what does this salute remind you of.  

Nothing. Indians have never been exposed to visual imagery of the Nazis. Nor do they know anything about them.

[MaxQue]

Of course the obvious question I ask is what does this salute remind you of.  

Nothing. Indians have never been exposed to visual imagery of the Nazis. Nor do they know anything about them.

And let's not talk about one of the religious symbols of the Hindus (which was turned by 45° by Nazis, to make a well-known symbol).

[minionofmidas]

Oh, the nazis used unrotated versions as well... and the Indians use rotated ones as well, albeit rarely (as well as both right and left facing ones).

[jaichind]

But why is not Bihar and UP part of Hindu heartland? Why will not BJP win in Karntaka new when their drop outs Will rejoin them?

They are.  It is only when it comes to political analysis people tend to lump in Northern Hindi states that are BJP vs INC.  UP and Bihar clearly are not BJP vs INC. As for Karnataka the rule of thumb is that during the honeymoon period of a new state government, the ruling party does very well in the Lok Shabha elections.  For sure KJP and possibility BRSCP rejoining BJP will help although there are still rumors that BRSCP might merge with JD(S).  But INC will win most of the seats in Karnataka not matter what.

[jaichind]

Of course the obvious question I ask is what does this salute remind you of.  

Nothing. Indians have never been exposed to visual imagery of the Nazis. Nor do they know anything about them.

Not really.  See

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711475.stm
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2004-09-30/india/27144859_1_hitler-gujarat-state-board-school-textbooks

In Modi's state of Gujarat, social studies textbook has chapters on 'Hitler, the Supremo' and 'Internal Achievements of Nazism'.

And in Ahmedabad, capital of Gujarat they is a store called Hitler.



To be fair, about 10 years ago in Taiwan Province, I saw a restaurant called "Holocaust Restaurant" which has all sort of pictures from the Holocaust.  I think it shut down soon due to lack of business.

[minionofmidas]

Of course the obvious question I ask is what does this salute remind you of.  

Nothing. Indians have never been exposed to visual imagery of the Nazis. Nor do they know anything about them.

Not really.  See

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711475.stm
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2004-09-30/india/27144859_1_hitler-gujarat-state-board-school-textbooks

Oh, they have heard the name 'Hitler' alright but if they know anything about him it's that the Britishers fought him just as they were finally being forced from India.
Which is obviously not something negative.

[jaichind]

Oh, they have heard the name 'Hitler' alright but if they know anything about him it's that the Britishers fought him just as they were finally being forced from India.
Which is obviously not something negative.

Yes, this for sure is a factor.  Most people in India know Hilter as a leader of Germany that weakened the UK so much they had to leave india.  One other reason Hitler is gaining popularity in India is he is precieved as a strong leader with principles, something that seems to be lacking in Indian politics.  This is where I make a link between RSS and Hitler in the sense the RSS projection of its ideals is around the strong leader.  I am not even here to attack this political view since in some circumstances I might be sympathetic  to this view.  I am merely pointing out links between RSS world view and various pan-Fascist views.   For example RSS projects the concept of  ‘One Nation, One Leader’ and ‘Hindustan belongs to the Hindus’ which were part of its views when it was founded in the 1920s.

On a funnier note, there is a guy in Meghalaya which is a small northeastern state in India that has the name Adolf Hitler and runs in elections for state assembly last few election cycles.  Also during the 2002-2008 period, the LJP in Bihar would use a Bin Laden look-alike in campaign rallies in Muslim majority districts.  This was a period when Bin Laden was popular in certain segments in Muslim India more as a fighter for Muslim interests against the "Evil Empire."

[Хahar 🤔]

BSP expels MP for defending Modi's "puppy" remarks

[Filuwaúrdjan]

On the one hand that's absolutely horrific. On the other, there is at least one pub in Shropshire named for Robert Clive, as well as a statute in the county town...

[jaichind]

Edelweiss Securities which is more or less pro-BJP came out with a poll.   It concluded

1) BJP 145-155 seats.  If BJP emerges as the largest party, it may get the first opportunity to form the government. Getting allies will be challenging for the party, but as post-poll alliances are less ideological, it may manage to form the government.
2) INC 130-140 seats.  If INC’s seat tally is lower than 2004 (which is 138), it may decide not to stake a claim to power and instead decide to support a Third Front coalition from outside
3) Voting patterns clearly exhibit caste-based voting in more than 50% of Lok Sabha constituencies
4) Regional parties are likely to increase their seat tally.  In Tamil Nadu and West Bengal, DMK’s and TMC split with INC could benefit AIADMK and Left Front, respectively. In UP, expect the SP to be the leader, but not in an emphatic way, owing to the anti-incumbency factor
5) In AP, new party YSR Congress could win a decent number of seats, while Telangana issue will benefit the TDP‐TRS alliance.
6) In Bihar, splitting of the BJP-JD(U) alliance will hurt both; however JD(U) is likely to join hands with INC, which will benefit both.
 

[FredLindq]

Any more figures from this poll?

[jaichind]

Any more figures from this poll?

Nope.  Seems like a private report for their customers.  Of course I can derive UPA and NDA rought seat counts based on this. 

UPA: INC, NCP, RLD, IUML, NC, AIMIM, KC, JMM. 
NDA: BJP, SS, SAD, RPI(A), NPP, HJC

If INC is 130-140.  NCP is around 10, RLD 5, NC 3, AIMIM 1, KC 1, IUML 2, JMM 3.  That would put UPA at 155-165.

If BJP is 145-155.  SS is around 10, SAD 4, RPI(A) 0, NPP 0, HJC 1.  NDA would be 160-170.

If this is what would take place then it will be a Third or Forth Front government supported from the outside by the UPA as neither NDA or UPA have the strength to form a government even by roping in parties from the outside. 

[Sbane]

Oh, they have heard the name 'Hitler' alright but if they know anything about him it's that the Britishers fought him just as they were finally being forced from India.
Which is obviously not something negative.

Yes, this for sure is a factor.  Most people in India know Hilter as a leader of Germany that weakened the UK so much they had to leave india.  One other reason Hitler is gaining popularity in India is he is precieved as a strong leader with principles, something that seems to be lacking in Indian politics.  This is where I make a link between RSS and Hitler in the sense the RSS projection of its ideals is around the strong leader.  I am not even here to attack this political view since in some circumstances I might be sympathetic  to this view.  I am merely pointing out links between RSS world view and various pan-Fascist views.   For example RSS projects the concept of  ‘One Nation, One Leader’ and ‘Hindustan belongs to the Hindus’ which were part of its views when it was founded in the 1920s.

On a funnier note, there is a guy in Meghalaya which is a small northeastern state in India that has the name Adolf Hitler and runs in elections for state assembly last few election cycles.  Also during the 2002-2008 period, the LJP in Bihar would use a Bin Laden look-alike in campaign rallies in Muslim majority districts.  This was a period when Bin Laden was popular in certain segments in Muslim India more as a fighter for Muslim interests against the "Evil Empire."

I think you could be right about them trying to project themselves as strong, principled leaders using Hitler's imagery. And as has been pointed out, Indians viewed the British with obvious disdain during that time and the war with Germany weakened the British. So why should Indians view them as some greater evil than the British? And your enemies enemies are your friend after all.

Now lest someone assume that this means Hindu nationalists don't like Jews, or even the zionist movement, you would be quite wrong. While Hindu nationalists don't like Muslims and Christians (at least missionaries), they are quite fond of zionists. I think it's because of their struggle with Muslims and also the fact that Jews don't try to convert people. Again, the enemy of the enemy is my friend.

[jaichind]

I think you could be right about them trying to project themselves as strong, principled leaders using Hitler's imagery. And as has been pointed out, Indians viewed the British with obvious disdain during that time and the war with Germany weakened the British. So why should Indians view them as some greater evil than the British? And you enemies enemies are your friend after all.

Now lest someone assume that this means Hindu nationalists don't like Jews, or even the zionist movement, you would be quite wrong. While Hindu nationalists don't like Muslims and Christians (at least missionaries), they are quite fond of zionists. I think it's because of their struggle with Muslims and also the fact that Jews don't try to convert people. Again, the enemy of the enemy is my friend.

I completely agree with the last point.  India has waffled back and forth on their Israel policy.  They are pro-Palestine most because of their tradition in the non-aligned anti-imperialist movement.   But in many ways Indians and including the Hindu nationalist, tend to be pro-Israel at their base tendencies.  They see no inconstancy between that and their support of Hilter as an anti-UK agent as well as a principled political leader. 

[ag]

Well, most ultra-right parties in Europe are increasingly pro-Israel as well. So, in that respect, there is no inconsistency here.

[Sbane]

Well, most ultra-right parties in Europe are increasingly pro-Israel as well. So, in that respect, there is no inconsistency here.

Yeah, but the right wing in India is quite fond of Jews, which I don't think is true of the European right wing. I think it is because they are the "model minority" who don't convert people. And I actually agree with the BJP on this, especially on missionary activity in tribal areas. It should be stopped or at least heavily regulated.

[Sbane]

Also to guide the conversation back to Modi, I don't know what the hell he is doing. As has been pointed out, nobody who isn't already tightly associated with the NDA wants anything to do with Hindutva. Of course there are parties who will give outside support to the BJP if they feel they can get more power at the center than with Congress. But it becomes less and less likely if Modi acts like this. He has to advertise Gujarat's economic performance and lack of corruption, not their pogroms. That is the only way the BJP can get enough outside support to take control. And the base doesn't need to hear the red meat to come out big for Modi.

[ag]

Well, most ultra-right parties in Europe are increasingly pro-Israel as well. So, in that respect, there is no inconsistency here.

Yeah, but the right wing in India is quite fond of Jews, which I don't think is true of the European right wing. I think it is because they are the "model minority" who don't convert people. And I actually agree with the BJP on this, especially on missionary activity in tribal areas. It should be stopped or at least heavily regulated.

Oh, by now the European right-wing has found itself other Jews - it's ok with the old kind, for the most part. Still more so, w/ the Israeli kind.

[ag]

Also to guide the conversation back to Modi, I don't know what the hell he is doing. As has been pointed out, nobody who isn't already tightly associated with the NDA wants anything to do with Hindutva. Of course there are parties who will give outside support to the BJP if they feel they can get more power at the center than with Congress. But it becomes less and less likely if Modi acts like this. He has to advertise Gujarat's economic performance and lack of corruption, not their pogroms. That is the only way the BJP can get enough outside support to take control. And the base doesn't need to hear the red meat to come out big for Modi.

But pogroms is THE fun of it. What else is the top job for?

[Хahar 🤔]

All of this Hindutva talk seems to me to be a natural reaction on the part of the RSS to the decline of the BJP over the last decade. The BJP now only forms a few state governments and it has been shut out at the Center for quite some time; it would be natural for an RSS partisan to blame this on the lasting effects of the Vajpayee strategy concerning Hindutva.

[FredLindq]

http://exitopinionpollsindia.blogspot.se/

According to this BJP is actually loosing support since Modi took over. Comparing the latest Edelweiss poll with earlier ones.

Any comments on this?!

[Sbane]

Also to guide the conversation back to Modi, I don't know what the hell he is doing. As has been pointed out, nobody who isn't already tightly associated with the NDA wants anything to do with Hindutva. Of course there are parties who will give outside support to the BJP if they feel they can get more power at the center than with Congress. But it becomes less and less likely if Modi acts like this. He has to advertise Gujarat's economic performance and lack of corruption, not their pogroms. That is the only way the BJP can get enough outside support to take control. And the base doesn't need to hear the red meat to come out big for Modi.

But pogroms is THE fun of it. What else is the top job for?

Economic reforms hopefully. The last BJP government actually got a lot done. The cell phone boom has changed the way business is done in India for the poor. The congress party has been hamstrung by its allies like the CPM at first and then the bitch Mamata in this term. Bengal is screwing up the rest of India.

[jaichind]

http://exitopinionpollsindia.blogspot.se/

According to this BJP is actually loosing support since Modi took over. Comparing the latest Edelweiss poll with earlier ones.

Any comments on this?!

Since the history of polling in India has thrown up a large diverse array of results one cannot compare polls done by different pollsters and draw conclusions from them.