Opinion of Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden

[Reluctant Republican]

if you read that Guardian article you'll notice he claims he could have taken down the entire US intelligence system in an afternoon. If you believe the NSA would give that level of access to a contractor with a GED... I can't help you.

This whole thing makes me cringe.

Yeah I find it amazing none of the adolescents is even for a minute questioning a guy who has already made several unbelievable grandiose and incredible claims.  The guy is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.  Seriously people go back and read about the Pentagon papers.  Read about how that whole thing went down.  None of this garbage is even close.

This entire thread just took a big dump on Daniel Ellsberg.  Let's give the kids a little history.  First of all Daniel Ellsberg attended HARVARD AND CAMBRIDGE before he joined the US MARINE CORPS and went to VIETNAM.  After being discharged as a LIEUTENANT he returned to HARVARD and eventually got a PHD.  He described the Ellsberg paradox which spawned numerous academic papers.  Then he goes to work at the Pentagon.  Then back to Vietnam as a civilian working for the State Department....

So you guys beginning to see a difference between a solid upstanding patriotic stable citizen doing the right thing and these two modern day jack@$$es?

Actually Ellsberg had this to say:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

As for my thoughts, Both are men I admire. Snowden seems  to have a bit of an ego(just look at the codename he used), and I suspect he has a hero complex. But I care little for his reasoning if he did the right thing, and in my view, he has.

[DINGO Joe]

Now that I've been subjected to Edward's attention whore "abandoned" girlfriend I've turned against everyone.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/snowden-girlfriend-nsa-mills-photos-131840670.html

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

HP/HP for different reasons tho.

In the case of Manning, HP because he had the total lack of sense to trust Assange with the material he was leaking.  Assange is an absolute HP given his total disregard for the harm he does.  If Manning had found someone more responsible to leak to, I could see calling him an FF.  In the case of Snowden, it's HP because he's an attention whore.  I'd  have a bit more respect for him if he'd simply kept his identity unknown or if he had remained in the US to face the music, but given the total lack of anything earthshaking in his revelations, I can't see calling him an FF.

[Link]

if you read that Guardian article you'll notice he claims he could have taken down the entire US intelligence system in an afternoon. If you believe the NSA would give that level of access to a contractor with a GED... I can't help you.

This whole thing makes me cringe.

Yeah I find it amazing none of the adolescents is even for a minute questioning a guy who has already made several unbelievable grandiose and incredible claims.  The guy is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.  Seriously people go back and read about the Pentagon papers.  Read about how that whole thing went down.  None of this garbage is even close.

This entire thread just took a big dump on Daniel Ellsberg.  Let's give the kids a little history.  First of all Daniel Ellsberg attended HARVARD AND CAMBRIDGE before he joined the US MARINE CORPS and went to VIETNAM.  After being discharged as a LIEUTENANT he returned to HARVARD and eventually got a PHD.  He described the Ellsberg paradox which spawned numerous academic papers.  Then he goes to work at the Pentagon.  Then back to Vietnam as a civilian working for the State Department....

So you guys beginning to see a difference between a solid upstanding patriotic stable citizen doing the right thing and these two modern day jack@$$es?

When did where someone went to college or what ranked they made it to in the military become an indicator of how "upstanding" or "patriotic" a whistleblower is?

You skipped the words "solid" and "stable."  Both Manning and Snowden have exhibited signs of mental illness and instability.  Daniel Ellsberg did everything my the book in an unimpeachable fashion.  He considered everything very carefully.  And when he took action he did so in a limited and careful way.  His whole entire adult life was about doing everything in a thoughtful careful well planned way.  He didn't have a chaotic life filled with assaults on his step mother and endless rows with homosexual lovers on the internet.  He didn't go to China to seek asylm while making grandiose claims.

Seriously this thread is an insult to Daniel Ellsberg.  Not every unstable clown that blurts our classified information is a Daniel Ellsberg.

[Morning in Atlas]

Now that I've been subjected to Edward's attention whore "abandoned" girlfriend I've turned against everyone.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/snowden-girlfriend-nsa-mills-photos-131840670.html

dibs

[Link]

Now that I've been subjected to Edward's attention whore "abandoned" girlfriend I've turned against everyone.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/snowden-girlfriend-nsa-mills-photos-131840670.html

I read part of your link...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This "hero" and roll model just gets better and better.

[DINGO Joe]

Now that I've been subjected to Edward's attention whore "abandoned" girlfriend I've turned against everyone.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/snowden-girlfriend-nsa-mills-photos-131840670.html

dibs

She's all yours, captain.  Look, if I could impart one piece of wisdom upon the horny youth of today, it's "sooner or later you have to talk to them."

I'm really not ruling out that Edward's real motivation in this whole thing was to get away from her.

[patrick1]

Now that I've been subjected to Edward's attention whore "abandoned" girlfriend I've turned against everyone.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/snowden-girlfriend-nsa-mills-photos-131840670.html

dibs

She's all yours, captain.  Look, if I could impart one piece of wisdom upon the horny youth of today, it's "sooner or later you have to talk to them."

I'm really not ruling out that Edward's real motivation in this whole thing was to get away from her.

Haha, yes that girl does seem completely bat$hit. Also a rather plain looking, a good body in the land of fats sure.

[Old Man Svensson]

Fine talk coming from partisan hacks who insult the name of the Left Wing every time they open their mouths.

WTF?!  Why are you making this personal... and a complete lie.

Because I haven't been able to stand either of you since the day I set foot in this forum. If there's one thing I can stomach less than the parties in America, it's their self-righteous toadies - in particularly the "progressives" who worship and whitewash the Democratic Party while completely neglecting to fight for anything meaningfully left-wing.

Bradly manning had all kinds of personal and social problems.  That kid was not mentally okay.  Plus all the so called Pentagon Paper analogists need to remember the Pentagon papers were handed over to the NY Times.  They were not handed over to some crazy white haired guy who commits rape in Sweden.  C'mon who can't get laid in Sweden?!

Seriously some of the stuff contained in the Manning dump needed to be exposed.  The vast majority of it did not.  The guy is reckless, irresponsible, and stupid.

So, you think it was better that the public never know about the government trying to spy on everything they do? And furthermore, do you honestly think Manning's issues at all excuse the blood-chilling way he's been treated by the feds for the past two years?

[Spamage]

Reckless, treasonous idiots. Having said that, this latest tedious internet hero doesn't seem to have jeopardised anyone's lives, so he at least he's better than Manning in that regard. I still look forward to both being imprisoned (or not, since that will only prolong the orgy of moral outrage).

This whole thing makes me cringe.

[King]

I think it says more about how dumbed down the news cycle and American people are that we need whisteblowers to leak things that are legal and posted clearly as law.

I plan on going forward in the next few days with a shocking leak that Snickers bars are high in sugar.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I have yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why either one did anything wrong or how they hurt anyone. The only thing I'm hearing is basically "The internet libertarian types who love to idolize both tend to be annoying douchebags" which is fallacious in quite a few ways and has nothing to do with either one's actual actions.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And WTF has happened to Lief?

(About Assange)

Well, hopefully he can escape the UK as well then. I'm sure they would welcome him in Iceland or something.

(Assange again)

Aren't we all glad this man is fighting for freedom?

Yes, very glad. Though I'm not surprised the freedom haters in this thread have joined the campaign to disparage and smear him.

(Assange again)

Very little of what he has leaked is damaging to anyone but the criminals and murderers who he is exposing.

And Assange actually is an obvious douchebag and an asshole, but for reasons completely unrelated to the stuff he leaked.

[Lief 🗽]

My old positions on this were immature and a byproduct of spending too much time on reddit. Though at least Assange has the dashing, roguish international playboy thing going for him, as opposed to these two weirdos.

[Old Man Svensson]

My old positions on this were immature and a byproduct of spending too much time on reddit. Though at least Assange has the dashing, roguish international playboy thing going for him, as opposed to these two weirdos.

You're more willing to defend the psychotic rapist than you are Manning and Snowden

WHAT

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And all Manning did was expose the war crimes of the Bush Administration.

[Lief 🗽]

My old positions on this were immature and a byproduct of spending too much time on reddit. Though at least Assange has the dashing, roguish international playboy thing going for him, as opposed to these two weirdos.

You're more willing to defend the psychotic rapist than you are Manning and Snowden

WHAT

your reading comprehension is bad bro

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Manning had no opportunity to read all of those documents...

[CatoMinor]

lol, neither of them have done anything heroic, you silly paranoid fanboys. Both deserve to be in jail and both give real whistle blowers who actually care about government accountability a bad name.

This makes no sense, Lief.  How have you divined their 'intent'?  How do you know who are 'real' whistle blowers who 'actually care'?  And why should we care about this imagined intent?

The net result of anyone who reveals what the fascists are doing is - well, just that: we know (or anyway confirm) what they are doing.  It doesn't really matter if the person who revealed it to us was some admirable superman or some sad, confused victim - except perhaps that the latter resembles us more.

Lief, you have achieved what I thought to be impossible, by making me agree with Opebo here.

[MaxQue]

And WTF has happened to Lief?

He became a mouthpiece of the Obama administration.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

They're both awful, and should go on trial for treason.

[Mr. Morden]

And WTF has happened to Lief?

He became a mouthpiece of the Obama administration.

Interestingly, I think it happened around the time he started supporting Herman Cain.

[LastVoter]

Lief, do you want to denounce Chavez while you continue to submit to imperialism? Might as well do it now since you started getting patronage from Obama.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

If there's one thing I can stomach less than the parties in America, it's their self-righteous toadies - in particularly the "progressives" who worship and whitewash the Democratic Party while completely neglecting to fight for anything meaningfully left-wing.

Who said the Democratic Party was a left wing party?  By international standards they're a centrist party and the Republicans are on the right.  So there's no reason whatsoever for a Democrat to have to fight for anything meaningfully left-wing.

[Lief 🗽]

Lief, do you want to denounce Chavez while you continue to submit to imperialism? Might as well do it now since you started getting patronage from Obama.

You're a fool if you think Manning or Snowden have accomplished anything against American imperialism. All they've done is possibly endanger innocent people and win over hordes of paranoid middle-class white guys on the internet who have read the Wikipedia plot summary of 1984.