Do "nice guys finish last"?

[politicus]

Opinion of the phrase "nice guys finish last"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nice%20guys

True or false?
Only true in certain spheres of life?
More true in the US than elsewhere?

[Kitteh]

Nice guys != "nice guys", and the people who use that phrase are most often the latter.

[Antonio the Sixth]

People who:
- Act nice with girls just to get laid.
- Think being "just friends" with a girl is a bad thing.
- Blame "women"'s stupidity for their lack of success.

...are not nice. They are disgusting assholes.

On the other hand, after going through a few websites which talk about the "nice guy syndrome" (see this for example), I feel like they tend to confuse these kind of guys along with people (like me) who mean well but are just shy and insecure - and awkwardly try to do their best to be appreciated. I think I'm a "nice guy". But I'm not an entitled bastard. I'm not a crypto-mysogynist. I value friendship a lot.

I don't want to be reduced to a stereotype or be given hidden intentions I don't have. And I think feminists should more than anyone else be distrustful of stereotypes, regardless of who they regard.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

People who:
- Act nice with girls just to get laid.
- Think being "just friends" with a girl is a bad thing.
- Blame "women"'s stupidity for their lack of success.

...are not nice. They are disgusting assholes.

Take your frustration somewhere else.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

People who:
- Act nice with girls just to get laid.
- Think being "just friends" with a girl is a bad thing.
- Blame "women"'s stupidity for their lack of success.

...are not nice. They are disgusting assholes.

Seriously though, you're correct. I believe you should be nice because it's just a correct way of dealing with the people of both sexes (unless it's Atlas Forum) and I happen to have more female friends than male. Lol.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

In many things, yes. 

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

With females?  When they are young, often times yes.  In the long run, no.  All women (notice I said "women", not "girls") like confidence.  For a guy who is confident, being nice is not going to be some kind of turn off.  Being an asshole, though, might very well be. 

In other aspects of life?  It really is completely dependent upon the situation.  I could see why in the good ol' USA this might be a little more true, as competition is a driving force behind the very way we live our lives.  I will say that I think the old idiom is talking less about being generally nice, and more about being a pushover.  No, a man should not be a pushover and expect the things he wants to come his way. 

[Antonio the Sixth]

All women (notice I said "women", not "girls") like confidence.

There is no such a thing as "all women". There are only individuals.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

All women (notice I said "women", not "girls") like confidence.

There is no such a thing as "all women". There are only individuals.

True, but most of those individuals like confidence.

[Antonio the Sixth]

All women (notice I said "women", not "girls") like confidence.

There is no such a thing as "all women". There are only individuals.

True, but most of those individuals like confidence.

Maybe, but that's not a sufficient reason to make assumption on people based on their chromosomes.

How would you judge me if I started a sentence with "all the blacks..."?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

All women (notice I said "women", not "girls") like confidence.

There is no such a thing as "all women". There are only individuals.

True, but most of those individuals like confidence.

Maybe, but that's not a sufficient reason to make assumption on people based on their chromosomes.

How would you judge me if I started a sentence with "all the blacks..."?

I prefer not to judge and you shouldn't judge Hokey for a colloquial expression.  For example, I'd stand by a phrase that said "all teenagers are a pain in the ass".....because they are. 

[Antonio the Sixth]

All women (notice I said "women", not "girls") like confidence.

There is no such a thing as "all women". There are only individuals.

True, but most of those individuals like confidence.

Maybe, but that's not a sufficient reason to make assumption on people based on their chromosomes.

How would you judge me if I started a sentence with "all the blacks..."?

I prefer not to judge and you shouldn't judge Hokey for a colloquial expression.  For example, I'd stand by a phrase that said "all teenagers are a pain in the ass".....because they are. 

I'm not really judging Hockey either. He probably means well. But these "colloquial expressions" have to be called out for what they are: bigotry. Often unconscious bigotry, but bigotry nonetheless.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

All women (notice I said "women", not "girls") like confidence.

There is no such a thing as "all women". There are only individuals.

True, but most of those individuals like confidence.

Maybe, but that's not a sufficient reason to make assumption on people based on their chromosomes.

How would you judge me if I started a sentence with "all the blacks..."?

I prefer not to judge and you shouldn't judge Hokey for a colloquial expression.  For example, I'd stand by a phrase that said "all teenagers are a pain in the ass".....because they are. 

I'm not really judging Hockey either. He probably means well. But these "colloquial expressions" have to be called out for what they are: bigotry. Often unconscious bigotry, but bigotry nonetheless.

You are wound wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too tight, young friend.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I have my pet peeves, like everybody.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Ok, Tony, 99.999999999% of females I've met like confidence.  

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ok, Tony, 99.999999999% of females I've met like confidence.  

Statistics pulled out of one's ass are then next step. Not a huge improvement, but still an improvement.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Nice guys != "nice guys", and the people who use that phrase are most often the latter.

Yeah, passive assholery is still assholery.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Ok, Tony, 99.999999999% of females I've met like confidence.  

Statistics pulled out of one's ass are then next step. Not a huge improvement, but still an improvement.

Bolded, recolored, underlined, and resized.  Have a brief relaxation, Tony.

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[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Ok, Tony, 99.999999999% of females I've met like confidence.  

Statistics pulled out of one's ass are then next step. Not a huge improvement, but still an improvement.

Bolded, recolored, underlined, and resized.  Have a brief relaxation, Tony.

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Bless you.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Gotta love this thread.

[anvi]

As politicus' experiment here has established, this is a a theory seriously debated...among guys.  

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ok, Tony, 99.999999999% of females I've met like confidence. 

Statistics pulled out of one's ass are then next step. Not a huge improvement, but still an improvement.

Bolded, recolored, underlined, and resized.  Have a brief relaxation, Tony.

Apologies for not noticing that bit. This certainly makes your case much better (though in this case your post implies that you have met more than 100 billion women... which I somehow doubt ).

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Ok, Tony, 99.999999999% of females I've met like confidence. 

Statistics pulled out of one's ass are then next step. Not a huge improvement, but still an improvement.

Bolded, recolored, underlined, and resized.  Have a brief relaxation, Tony.

Apologies for not noticing that bit. This certainly makes your case much better (though in this case your post implies that you have met more than 100 billion women... which I somehow doubt ).

Rounds up to 100%.  I've yet to meet a girl, and get to know a girl (straight), who does not find confidence in men to be attractive. 

[Antonio the Sixth]

As politicus' experiment here has established, this is a a theory seriously debated...among guys. 

My initial post was actually directed at DRJ more than anyone else (as the main representative of nice guy-bashers). I obviously don't think that "nice guys finish last" (what a stupid idea), but what I'm concerned with is the association of the term "nice guy" with a series of unfavorable and unfair stereotypes.

[angus]

True or false?
Only true in certain spheres of life?
More true in the US than elsewhere?

It is true. 

It is especially true in politics and business ventures. 

It is probably less valid in the US than in autocracies, military dictatorships, and in the various kingdoms and empires which existed before the US, but to some extent it is also true in the US.