If Mormonism wasn't so popular in Utah...
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  If Mormonism wasn't so popular in Utah...
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Author Topic: If Mormonism wasn't so popular in Utah...  (Read 1106 times)
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« on: May 22, 2013, 04:25:22 PM »

...how would the state vote locally and nationally?  Would it look more like Colorado in terms of politics, or would it be almost the same as it is today?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 04:31:39 PM »

If it weren't for the Mormons. Utah would be more like Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho.  It would be far more sparsely populated with only 3 or 4 EVs.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 04:42:53 PM »

There would be nowhere near as many people living there. In this scenario, I assume the Mormons never relocated to Utah, instead remaining scattered throughout the Midwest and upstate New York.

They'd probably only have one or two CDs. Their electorate would be like Wyoming's or like Idaho's non-Mormons - fiscally conservative, leave-me-alone on social and foreign policy issues.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 06:01:52 PM »

There would be nowhere near as many people living there. In this scenario, I assume the Mormons never relocated to Utah, instead remaining scattered throughout the Midwest and upstate New York.

They'd probably only have one or two CDs. Their electorate would be like Wyoming's or like Idaho's non-Mormons - fiscally conservative, leave-me-alone on social and foreign policy issues.

I hope you're not including the religiously right-wing transplants from California and elsewhere in that group. Tongue
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 08:13:27 PM »

...how would the state vote locally and nationally?  Would it look more like Colorado in terms of politics, or would it be almost the same as it is today?

It would look like Colorado if you did some handwaving and assumed massive amounts of immigration from other areas to make up for the lack of generations of Mormons have 6+ kids.

If you assume no Mormonism or Mormonism not moving to Utah, then it will look like Wyoming or Colorado.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 08:14:55 PM »

There would be nowhere near as many people living there. In this scenario, I assume the Mormons never relocated to Utah, instead remaining scattered throughout the Midwest and upstate New York.

Would there be enough of them in the midwest to change some states' leanings? Perhaps change Ohio to lean GOP or make Pennsylvania a swing state?
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 08:36:24 PM »

Illinois would possibly be a swing state if we assume no Mormon migration, as I believe there are some areas there that Mormons consider their 'holy land.'

Missouri would also likely be far more conservative than it is now.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 08:48:01 PM »

it wouldn't even exist in its current form.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 09:05:37 PM »

It would be a cross of Colorado, Nevada and Montana politically, so a swing state. I'd say it would have somewhere between 4 or 5 EVs.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 09:09:17 PM »

Illinois would possibly be a swing state if we assume no Mormon migration, as I believe there are some areas there that Mormons consider their 'holy land.'

Close but no cigar. (Of course Mormons don't want cigars.) Nauvoo, Illinois is important but Independence, Missouri is the location of where the City of Zion will be in the last days. Kirtland, Ohio is also of some importance as the site of Joseph Smith's first temple. Incidentally, the temple properties in Kirtland and Independence are not owned by the Mormons but by a different branch of the LDS movement, the Community of Christ. CoC is the branch that considered Joseph Smith III instead of Brigham Young to be Joseph Smith Jr's successor and is the second largest LDS church.
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Asian Nazi
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 09:25:42 PM »

Yeah, it's tough to say.  Utah has many characteristics that would otherwise lend it to being a blue state (highly educated, highly urbanized).  However, without the Mormon population, it would also be less educated and less urbanized so who knows. 
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 09:41:35 PM »

Without the Mormons there would likely be no Utah, It would likely just be conservative rural parts of Colorado and Nevada.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 11:43:56 PM »

Illinois would possibly be a swing state if we assume no Mormon migration, as I believe there are some areas there that Mormons consider their 'holy land.'

Close but no cigar. (Of course Mormons don't want cigars.) Nauvoo, Illinois is important but Independence, Missouri is the location of where the City of Zion will be in the last days. Kirtland, Ohio is also of some importance as the site of Joseph Smith's first temple. Incidentally, the temple properties in Kirtland and Independence are not owned by the Mormons but by a different branch of the LDS movement, the Community of Christ. CoC is the branch that considered Joseph Smith III instead of Brigham Young to be Joseph Smith Jr's successor and is the second largest LDS church.

My mother's family is CoC so I was more or less raised in that church for several years. A couple of my mom's siblings even worked as tour guides at the Kirtland and Independence temples some summers as college students (my mom was never terribly devout).

I tend to think that had the mass exodus to "Deseret" (Utah) never happened, the Mormons would look more like Community of Christ does today - much smaller, without the distinct culture. CoC at this point is basically a mainline Protestant denomination. They consider themselves a "peace church" and aren't particularly dogmatic on cultural issues like abortion and homosexuality. The congregation my family attended did not even use the Book of Mormon - it was in the pews next to The Bible and the hymnals but sermons never incorporated it and we were never taught about it in Sunday School. I think part of the reason for this is that unlike the LDS church, CoC members were always a minority in predominantly Protestant areas and thus adapted and evolved to avoid the discrimination Mormons had suffered earlier.
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