... And now Ben supports SSM

[opebo]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

As long as we remember who he is and don't trust him too much.  That is the reason for these 'attacks' - just an admonition to remember: there's a difference between those who always supported this and those who just hopped on the bandwagon.

[Brittain33]

there's a difference between those who always supported this and those who just hopped on the bandwagon.

Yes, it's that those of us in the former group (and I doubt I would have been so forward-thinking if it didn't affect me personally) have always needed the latter group to join us in order to achieve real change.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

No. It's not that Ben supports SSM. It's that he supports whatever Mark Warner supports.

[afleitch]

there's a difference between those who always supported this and those who just hopped on the bandwagon.

Yes, it's that those of us in the former group (and I doubt I would have been so forward-thinking if it didn't affect me personally) have always needed the latter group to join us in order to achieve real change.

I agree. I've been personally in favour since I was first political active some fourteen years ago but at times wanted to bargain it down to civil unions,just so there was something rather than this nothingness that older friends in long term same sex relationships I made along the way fell victim to.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Afleitch- can you educate us? I have been in favor of same sex marriage for some time now... but out of curiosity, what would you say the percentage of gay men who are in committed relationships is?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

No. It's not that Ben supports SSM. It's that he supports whatever Mark Warner supports.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Thanks Sbane. I'm glad someone else gets it.

If you guys remember three years ago and before that, Ben was constantly attacked for holding contradictory and nonsensical positions that served no purpose but apparently to adhere to the Golden Mean Fallacy. It wasn't just me. In fact if you click on the quote I linked, someone responds in the next post with an obvious jab at Moderate Heroism. That's what this is about really, not gay marriage.

[Franzl]

So what, BRTD? I was moderate hero enough to vote for Mark Kirk. People change and mature.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I think Ben's the only notable poster with that position, for no reason than that it best fit his devotion to Moderate Heroism.

What about me?

[Insula Dei]

So what, BRTD? I was moderate hero enough to vote for Mark Kirk. People change and mature.

Don't worry, Franzl, he hasn't forgotten.

[minionofmidas]

Thanks Sbane. I'm glad someone else gets it.

If you guys remember three years ago and before that, Ben was constantly attacked for holding contradictory and nonsensical positions that served no purpose but apparently to adhere to the Golden Mean Fallacy. It wasn't just me. In fact if you click on the quote I linked, someone responds in the next post with an obvious jab at Moderate Heroism. That's what this is about really, not gay marriage.

So where's the current relevance? That support for gay marriage is now a moderate hero position? Is that what you're trying to say?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Thanks Sbane. I'm glad someone else gets it.

If you guys remember three years ago and before that, Ben was constantly attacked for holding contradictory and nonsensical positions that served no purpose but apparently to adhere to the Golden Mean Fallacy. It wasn't just me. In fact if you click on the quote I linked, someone responds in the next post with an obvious jab at Moderate Heroism. That's what this is about really, not gay marriage.

So where's the current relevance? That support for gay marriage is now a moderate hero position? Is that what you're trying to say?

More that it's more acceptable to hold and still be a Moderate Hero.

[minionofmidas]

Well, a position that is now shared by (many, and probably soon all) moderate heroes and the social left. Yes, yes that is correct. And it's a new development that you ought to welcome if you want gay marriage to happen.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well, a position that is now shared by (many, and probably soon all) moderate heroes and the social left. Yes, yes that is correct. And it's a new development that you ought to welcome if you want gay marriage to happen.

I always thought moderate heroes has some use

[minionofmidas]

Well, a position that is now shared by (many, and probably soon all) moderate heroes and the social left. Yes, yes that is correct. And it's a new development that you ought to welcome if you want gay marriage to happen.

I always thought moderate heroes has some use

Of course. They're good weathervanes.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

So what, BRTD? I was moderate hero enough to vote for Mark Kirk. People change and mature.

Over Giannoulias? That's not Moderate-Heroism, that's common sense.

[Хahar 🤔]

The day benconstine can't be made fun of for being a moderate hero is the day this forum dies.

[Sbane]

It's not that I don't support Ben's move and I certainly do appreciate it. I just wanted to point out what a ridiculous moderate hero position he held before.

[opebo]

Afleitch- can you educate us? I have been in favor of same sex marriage for some time now... but out of curiosity, what would you say the percentage of gay men who are in committed relationships is?

How's he suppose to know? Just take a scientific survey of the guys in the bathhouse?

[Lief 🗽]

The day benconstine can't be made fun of for being a moderate hero is the day this forum dies.

^^^^^

Obviously proponents of same-sex marriage have nothing against people evolving to our side. But Ben's moderate hero persona has always been an artificial one, and his latest "evolution" is no different.

[Torie]

Beyond the execrable desire to give gays a second class moniker for their unions, there is a quite substantive reason beyond "moderate heroism"  to deny gays the use of the term "marriage." Can anyone figure out what that may be?  In an alternative universe, arguably I might hold the position that Ben formerly held, and I don't think anyone thinks I am a moderate hero. Or do you? 

[Kaine for Senate '18]

But Ben's moderate hero persona has always been an artificial one, and his latest "evolution" is no different.

Except that's not true.  But go ahead, feel free to determine whether my views are genuine.

[Penelope]

This thread is completely necessary.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This thread is completely unnecessary.

For the record I didn't make it. It was split from a different thread.

But I'm glad that Lief (and Sbane) gets what I'm saying.

[Napoleon]

This thread is completely unnecessary.

I think he was being sarcastic.

That isn't to say this thread doesn't have value. I thought Ben supported gay marriage this whole time. Yeah, I know hes a moderate hero. Even moderate heroes can support gay marriage. I was surprised.