If Plato was alive today and a poster on Atlas....

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

With Shakespeare I just found his stuff boring. Hideously so. It was also incredibly predictable and never had any interesting plot twists or anything like that, and the dialogue was stilted and unwitty. I also hated the long drawn out monologues some characters would do, now granted this is also a tactic good writers use, like Tarantino does all the time (such as Leo's large rant with his bleeding hand in Django Unchained, or Brad Pitt's opening speech in Inglourious Basterds or the Christopher Walken scene in Pulp Fiction, etc.) but he keeps the monologues interesting and easy to follow. Plus the actors get to go crazy with them, not really present in Shakespeare's plays. Truthfully we have posters on this forum with a more interesting, witty and funny writing styles, opebo and Tweed are both far superior. So yeah just wasn't fond of his stuff.

[All Along The Watchtower]

opebo and Tweed are both far superior.

wut

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

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There's really nothing I can say...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is better than any monologue Shakespeare wrote:

ok, Inks, I won't curse you out.  just don't do that anymore.  because you want the numbers to look a certain way.  we all do.  but hey, it doesn't work out like that.  let me tell you a story, Inks.  back in the summer I hung out with this group.  we called it, The Group.  we hung out from mid-afternoon everyday to past midnight.  but then this girl came in.  well, she was there anyway, but she ed sh**t up hardcore.  and one of my friends was in love with her, but it was painfully obviously he'd never get with her.  then another of my friends fell in love with her around August 10th.  and she actually liked him.  but there was a problem.  my two friends that were in love with the same girl, they had been best friends forever.  literally.  so the friend that.  oh who cares.  the point is, it ed sh**t up.  and now The Group is no longer.  and I've tried to wink towards my past, but winking towards it doesn't work.  I've become obsessed with it.  and I want The Group back, but it's no longer.  I want the numbers to look a certain way.  but they don't.  sorry Inks.  it happens.  so don't mess with my entries and I won't mess with yours.  it's better that way.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

FWIW, I don't see how this is controversial, how many people actually enjoyed the stuff they were forced to read in high school? Certainly not any of my classmates.

[traininthedistance]

FWIW, I don't see how this is controversial, how many people actually enjoyed the stuff they were forced to read in high school? Certainly not any of my classmates.

So, some random dude on an internet message board versus the figure almost universally acknowledged as the most influential and most read English-language writer of all time?

That's right, this should not be controversial at all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

FWIW, I don't see how this is controversial, how many people actually enjoyed the stuff they were forced to read in high school? Certainly not any of my classmates.

So, some random dude on an internet message board versus the figure almost universally acknowledged as the most influential and most read English-language writer of all time?

That's right, this should not be controversial at all.

No, I'm saying not enjoying Shakespeare's works being controversial. And really, most people in the demographic frequented by this message board would much rather watch the works of Quentin Tarantino or Lena Dunham than a Shakespeare production.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

BRTD, have you ever seen a decent Shakespeare production, by actors who respect the material for what it is but also know what they're doing?

....Shakespeare....would oppose strip clubs....

This is, of course, hilarious to anyone who has the slightest understanding of Elizabethan culture.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Is there an emoviolence rendition of Marc Anthony's eulogy to Caesar? Maybe BRTD would approve of that.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How can you not love this?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD, have you ever seen a decent Shakespeare production, by actors who respect the material for what it is but also know what they're doing?

Kind of a both narrow vague standard, but I have only seen film adaptations of his works.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

BRTD, have you ever seen a decent Shakespeare production, by actors who respect the material for what it is but also know what they're doing?

Kind of a both narrow vague standard, but I have only seen film adaptations of his works.

I'll put this the way you may understand. Sit down and try to imagine the Pulp Fiction (as you like t throw Tarantino into this "discussion") in form of a conventional stage production.

Got it?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Actually most of its scenes would work pretty well. Especially the best one (DESCRIBE WHAT MARCELLUS WALLACE LOOKS LIKE!) Would be kind of tricky to fit in John Travolta shooting the guy in the face though.

Killer Joe is a great example of a stage play that translated to film rather well, though I have not seen the play.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

This is better than any monologue Shakespeare wrote:

ok, Inks, I won't curse you out.  just don't do that anymore.  because you want the numbers to look a certain way.  we all do.  but hey, it doesn't work out like that.  let me tell you a story, Inks.  back in the summer I hung out with this group.  we called it, The Group.  we hung out from mid-afternoon everyday to past midnight.  but then this girl came in.  well, she was there anyway, but she ed sh**t up hardcore.  and one of my friends was in love with her, but it was painfully obviously he'd never get with her.  then another of my friends fell in love with her around August 10th.  and she actually liked him.  but there was a problem.  my two friends that were in love with the same girl, they had been best friends forever.  literally.  so the friend that.  oh who cares.  the point is, it ed sh**t up.  and now The Group is no longer.  and I've tried to wink towards my past, but winking towards it doesn't work.  I've become obsessed with it.  and I want The Group back, but it's no longer.  I want the numbers to look a certain way.  but they don't.  sorry Inks.  it happens.  so don't mess with my entries and I won't mess with yours.  it's better that way.

...can you two just f*^! and get it over with, while opie watches.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I guess it's the hipster thing to not like Shakespeare now?

Or maybe it's just BRTD. lol.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I guess it's the hipster thing to not like Shakespeare now?

I'm pretty sure most hipsters would prefer the works of Tarantino and Dunham to Shakespeare, although in this case it's not really so much "hipsters" as people under 35 in general.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I guess it's the hipster thing to not like Shakespeare now?

I'm pretty sure most hipsters would prefer the works of Tarantino and Dunham to Shakespeare, although in this case it's not really so much "hipsters" as people under 35 in general.

And that's the greatest indictment of them I can imagine...

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Since somehow we got onto Shakespeare, I actually found "MacBeth" an interesting story, far better than that hack piece "Rome and Juliet". On the subject of Dante, I'm in the midst of "The Inferno" right now and it seems good, though I have the advantage of translator's notes to help me out, so that could be making a difference.

[traininthedistance]

Yeah well all* the hipsters I know were English majors and loved Shakespeare to the point of taking whole seminars devoted to nothing but his work.

I think ragging on Shakespeare is more a thing for adolescents who don't like school.  The hipsters are too busy making artisanal bacon jam and Moby-Dick inspired woodcuts.

*okay, "most of"

[traininthedistance]

Yeah well all* the hipsters I know were English majors and loved Shakespeare to the point of taking whole seminars devoted to nothing but his work.

I think ragging on Shakespeare is more a thing for adolescents who don't like school.  The hipsters are too busy making artisanal bacon jam and Moby-Dick inspired woodcuts.

*okay, "most of"

Duh, I just realized.

The real hipster thing is to hate on Romeo and Juliet while loving more obscure Shakespeare plays like The Merry Wives of Windsor or Titus Andronicus.  Or better yet, his non-play stuff.

No, not that Titus Andronicus.  Okay, maybe that one too.

(Worth noting: the actual Shakespeare scholars tend to hate on R&J, too.)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

But they also tend to hate on Titus Andronicus. It's Coriolanus that's the true scholarly hipster/hipstertypal scholar's favorite, in my experience.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Surely they should be singing the praises of Pericles, Prince of Tyre?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A title that always makes me think of Krakatoa, East of Java.

[Gustaf]

That was a great post.

Gustaf's rebuttal reminds me of Libertas. "You can't get it because you're also a thick skulled hack." I mean look at my predictions (they are visible on my profile), if anything they have on average been a bit more conservative than reality. I underestimated Obama's performance both times in fact. I'll admit to being rather partisan, but not hackish.

All I'll say is that I sure as hell don't want to live in some totalitarian "Republic" ruled by "Philosopher Kings" anymore than I want to live in a so-called Randian Objectivist society or Leninist regime. And one could also argue that Rand and Lenin were intelligent people as well, does that make what they wrote worthy of value? But that's not really the point here, it's a debate for another forum. I just thought that anyone with Plato's views in the modern day would disgust probably well over 90% of the population but Gustaf just loves defending such people for seemingly no reason than to be contrarian (see also Sarah Palin) yet also mercilessly rips into people that are somewhat controversial but also more polarized in opinion and not as universally hated (in addition to me see how he constantly gets on px.) But meh. What Gustaf thinks of me affects me and is just as relevant as what Libertas or Kyle Mercado did, so whatever. The thread was worth it regardless just for Linus' post, so this was definitely a net plus.

Do you not realize how little sense you're making? What I write reminds you of Libertas? So? How is that relevant for anything? These things you say really aren't coherent.

Plato was not only a political philosopher. And since I'm not an idiot, like you, I can hold nuanced opinions of people. So while I also oppose his ideal society, I can recognize that his views on that is probably heavily influenced by his time and the experience of Athens killing Socrates. And I can appreciate Plato's writings in general and on other subjects.

Your attitude to these things is so infantile that it defies comprehension.

Anyway, you really think that it is a negative thing to not agree with the majority? That disliking someone who is popular is somehow bad? See, the value of critical thinking is something Plato could probably explain to you if you gave him a chance.

Oh yeah I'm an idiot. That's why I was just running training for a very technical-intensive job this week and was selected by the Division Manager to substitute for supervisors because of technical knowledge and ability to answer questions when many were gone the past few weeks.

I don't know where you get this idea from that I never ever show any nuance and never have in my 67000 posts. Sure I often get pretty passionate and use some extreme rhetoric. But that doesn't mean there's no nuance on anything. I just made this post only a day ago:

I kind of agree on a lot of the good things LBJ doing being inevitable, it kind of reminds me of the Nader apologists who argue that Nader is the only reason cars have seat belts today (because obviously without Nader no one else would ever propose or push for legislation mandating them and they wouldn't become a standard feature every car company would include anyway even if not mandated. So dumb.) It's pretty absurd to believe that without LBJ segregation and the type of voter suppression present in the South at the time would've survived to the present day and that there would've never been any Civil Rights Act or court decisions against them in the last 50 years. However that doesn't mean the situation today would not have been worse had that action not been taken early. And as far as the Great Society goes, most of those programs were not necessarily inevitable.

It's just as annoying though to defend him by arguing that Vietnam as it turned out (or a similar war) was inevitable as well no matter who was President.

And really considering one of the people I was thinking of that was unpopular but still inexplicably defended by you was CARLHAYDEN...uh well I'll just say that if you seriously think he was a poster who normally held very nuanced opinions and never delved into extreme black and white dichotomies, then, well I don't think much more needs to be said...

Anyway my view is basically that Plato's political philosophy is so awful it eclipses anything else he wrote. It's like Hugo Chavez actually (hey I actually have a more nuanced view on him than most right wingers do!), his authoritarianism and awful associations invalidated the good things he did that were brought up so much recently. It most certainly puts him behind Aristotle who didn't get anywhere near as  much of a negative reaction from the class or me. And it's clear he was a personal asshole.

But my point (along with this thread obviously) was never too serious. This is a political forum, so if someone started posting on it advocating Platonic government, they would be labeled and troll and be unpopular. And you have a tendency to defend such posters. It was just a jocular statement and the fact you took it so seriously is just more evidence of how little of a sense of humor you have.

It's amusing that you think you can lecture me on having a sense of humour. That's another concept I remain unconvinced that you get. But if this thread was a self-parody I'll admit it was a job well done.

And that you know how to repair iPhones or whatever isn't really what I'm talking about. My brother is doing that and he's 19.

It's amusing that you took my statement of liking nuance as it being hypocritical of me to ever defend an unnuanced person. I think you just made my point quite well. Maybe I am taking this too seriously, actually. Looking back at your post I guess it was all really self-parody wasn't it? "I'm entitled to discuss Plato because I work with tech stuff!"

Well done, hat off to you. As a tip though, if you ever showcased a persona other than idiocy mixed with mental illness it would be easier to tell when it was just an act. 

(and I hope the part about the thread being a joke was a meta-joke because that really isn't funny)

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

I guess it's the hipster thing to not like Shakespeare now?

I'm pretty sure most hipsters would prefer the works of Tarantino and Dunham to Shakespeare, although in this case it's not really so much "hipsters" as people under 35 in general.

BRTD, I have lost the little I respect I had for you in this thread.