Capital Punishment

[Franzl]

How else do you describe the premeditated taking of another person's life? What is murder if not that? Ah, that's right, only bad guys can murder.

The main distinction being that a murder committed by a criminal is an unlawful act committed against an undeserved person and that a state execution is a lawful act committed against a deserving person who committed a unlawful act. While the physical act of ending a life is the same, there are clear differences.

Yes, but legality does not equal morality.

I oppose capital punishment in all cases without exception, as it is both barbaric and ineffective.

Not always of course. However, as a society, people set punishments to deter crime and it is not immoral to apply punishments to people who willingly commit crimes with the knowledge beforehand that their committing of a crime might result in punishment. The punishment he suffers is one that he risked suffering, so it is no more unjust to apply a punishment to him then any other event where one voluntarily assumes risk.

How do you classify it as ineffective? Some studies have argued that for every execution preformed 3 to 18 lives are saved.

Who made that claim?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

An excellent example of Gramp's posting history.

[Gamecock]

I believe it was Cass Sunstein.

EDIT: Here is the article.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=691447

[Benj]

How else do you describe the premeditated taking of another person's life? What is murder if not that? Ah, that's right, only bad guys can murder.

The main distinction being that a murder committed by a criminal is an unlawful act committed against an undeserved person and that a state execution is a lawful act committed against a deserving person who committed a unlawful act. While the physical act of ending a life is the same, there are clear differences.

Yes, but legality does not equal morality.

I oppose capital punishment in all cases without exception, as it is both barbaric and ineffective.

Not always of course. However, as a society, people set punishments to deter crime and it is not immoral to apply punishments to people who willingly commit crimes with the knowledge beforehand that their committing of a crime might result in punishment. The punishment he suffers is one that he risked suffering, so it is no more unjust to apply a punishment to him then any other event where one voluntarily assumes risk.

So, if we implemented a law requiring execution for illegal music downloading, you would support executing music downloaders? What if we implemented a law requiring execution for jaywalking? Or perhaps for speaking out against the government?

Be careful not to use a lighter near the straw man you've created, it might catch fire.

All you argued is:

1. Foreknowledge of a potential punishment justifies that punishment as moral.
2. Murderers know they might be executed.
3. Therefore, execution of murderers is moral (and overcomes any ordinary moral aversion we have to killing).

If that's the case, then clearly wrong punishments that are widely known would also be moral. Since you're now claiming (1) is a straw man, you don't believe your own argument, either. You need a new justification for why execution is moral when other intentional killings are not.

[Gamecock]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No, If you look at my response to Senator Franzl, I clearly say that what is legal is not necessarily moral. I argued that it is not immoral to apply punishments that are clearly understood. That does not mean I cannot in my own community oppose such ideas.

[fezzyfestoon]

How do you classify it as ineffective? Some studies have argued that for every execution preformed 3 to 18 lives are saved.

Who made that claim?

I did, see Ernest for the reasons, plus the deterrent factor. I'd like to see those studies though, I've not ever heard that before.

I oppose capital punishment in all cases without exception, as it is both barbaric and ineffective.

Sorry, I should have added, "not that there's anything wrong with that." After all, I myself am in fact barbaric and ineffective as well.

[Darth Maul]

Yes(R). Fully support.

[Miles]

D- Against.

[Indy Texas]

I support capital punishment that is applied fairly and without mistakes.

The reality is that capital punishment is not applied fairly and the mistakes in conviction and sentencing can be astonishing. Until those things can be addressed, I will not support capital punishment.

[Goldwater]

Yes (R)

[Redalgo]

No (I/O)

[Torie]

It should be legal and rare.