MA: Re-Establishment of a Lieutenant Governor Amendment (Ratified)

[Talleyrand]

We eliminated having joint appointments for one of them, didn't we?

I was unaware that we had, but I could be wrong. Still, I think joint appointments for court and Senate should be OK.

[tmthforu94]

We eliminated having joint appointments for one of them, didn't we?

I was unaware that we had, but I could be wrong. Still, I think joint appointments for court and Senate should be OK.

Neither should be that big of a deal, since either will rarely need to be appointed.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Nevermind, that was the Assembly.  OK.  Then I ask unanimous consent that TexasDem's Superior Court amendment be adopted.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Why should the Governor and Lieutenant Governor jointly nominate court appointees?

[Gass3268]

Why should the Governor and Lieutenant Governor jointly nominate court appointees?

In order to give the LG some power so that the job isn't meaningless. If you are interested in why we have other provisions in this bill, I would suggest that you skim over the debate we had in the last session.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Instead of joint nominations, why not have the LG open and close the voting booth?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Instead of joint nominations, why not have the LG open and close the voting booth?

Because it should be a strong office with significant powers.

[Talleyrand]

I concur with Senator X.

Superior Court nominations before the elimination of the Lieutenant Governor in 2009 were made jointly alongside the Governor. With two people involved in picking our chief justice official, we can increase the likelihood of a widely acceptable choice and in the process allocate some appropriate powers to this position instead of making it a token official.

I would support giving the LG power to open and close the voting booth, but that's more of a ceremonial duty. However, if you would be more likely to vote for this bill, with that provision, I'm all for adding it to what we currently have.

I would urge everyone to vote for this bill and give it a chance. As the Governor pointed out earlier, if we come across issues, we can always come back later and amend the responsibilities of this office.

We shouldn't strike this idea down simply to maintain the status quo; change drives Atlasia.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

After reconsidering, I think we should move this to having only the Governor do nominations for Senate and the Court.  I'll introduce amendments shortly.

[tmthforu94]

After reconsidering, I think we should move this to having only the Governor do nominations for Senate and the Court.  I'll introduce amendments shortly.

Is your idea here to water down the position as much as possible to guarantee that it fail at the public vote?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

After reconsidering, I think we should move this to having only the Governor do nominations for Senate and the Court.  I'll introduce amendments shortly.

Is your idea here to water down the position as much as possible to guarantee that it fail at the public vote?

No - my idea is to get a bill that I actually think is a good bill.  I think that's the goal of every Assemblyman.  Assume some good faith here.

[tmthforu94]

After reconsidering, I think we should move this to having only the Governor do nominations for Senate and the Court.  I'll introduce amendments shortly.

Is your idea here to water down the position as much as possible to guarantee that it fail at the public vote?

No - my idea is to get a bill that I actually think is a good bill.  I think that's the goal of every Assemblyman.  Assume some good faith here.

But what is good about a position that has so few responsibilities? That makes it pointless.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

After reconsidering, I think we should move this to having only the Governor do nominations for Senate and the Court.  I'll introduce amendments shortly.

Is your idea here to water down the position as much as possible to guarantee that it fail at the public vote?

No - my idea is to get a bill that I actually think is a good bill.  I think that's the goal of every Assemblyman.  Assume some good faith here.

But what is good about a position that has so few responsibilities? That makes it pointless.

I think the point of the LG's office should be to assume the Governorship if the Governor is absent.  And update the wiki.  That's pretty much it.

[Gass3268]

After reconsidering, I think we should move this to having only the Governor do nominations for Senate and the Court.  I'll introduce amendments shortly.

Is your idea here to water down the position as much as possible to guarantee that it fail at the public vote?

No - my idea is to get a bill that I actually think is a good bill.  I think that's the goal of every Assemblyman.  Assume some good faith here.

But what is good about a position that has so few responsibilities? That makes it pointless.

I think the point of the LG's office should be to assume the Governorship if the Governor is absent.  And update the wiki.  That's pretty much it.

There really needs to be more then that. I really like the idea of giving the LG the power that is being proposed for the Vice Presidency. Let it be a executive-legislative hybrid.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

After reconsidering, I think we should move this to having only the Governor do nominations for Senate and the Court.  I'll introduce amendments shortly.

Is your idea here to water down the position as much as possible to guarantee that it fail at the public vote?

No - my idea is to get a bill that I actually think is a good bill.  I think that's the goal of every Assemblyman.  Assume some good faith here.

But what is good about a position that has so few responsibilities? That makes it pointless.

I think the point of the LG's office should be to assume the Governorship if the Governor is absent.  And update the wiki.  That's pretty much it.

There really needs to be more then that. I really like the idea of giving the LG the power that is being proposed for the Vice Presidency. Let it be a executive-legislative hybrid.

Well, I disagree with that.  I guess, as a compromise, I'll go with giving the LG co-nomination power.  But that's the extent that I'll vote for.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Governor, if you're unhappy with the bill the Assembly is crafting, why did you propose the Assembly make the Amendment?

[tmthforu94]

Governor, if you're unhappy with the bill the Assembly is crafting, why did you propose the Assembly make the Amendment?

You'll have to be a little bit more specific on what amendment you are talking about. I guess I thought Assembly appointments were still joint in the updated version, but apparently not.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Governor, if you're unhappy with the bill the Assembly is crafting, why did you propose the Assembly make the Amendment?

You'll have to be a little bit more specific on what amendment you are talking about. I guess I thought Assembly appointments were still joint in the updated version, but apparently not.

I mean the whole bill.  Why did you introduce this bill to the Assembly just to criticize the decision some of us are makiin.

[tmthforu94]

Governor, if you're unhappy with the bill the Assembly is crafting, why did you propose the Assembly make the Amendment?

You'll have to be a little bit more specific on what amendment you are talking about. I guess I thought Assembly appointments were still joint in the updated version, but apparently not.

I mean the whole bill.  Why did you introduce this bill to the Assembly just to criticize the decision some of us are makiin.

I didn't introduce the bill - TexasDem did. But why would I criticize the thoughts of some? Because I think what you're going for largely defeats one of the main purposes of the bill. I certainly think the Lt. Governor position, having tickets, will create more interesting elections and it'll be good to have someone help with the Wiki, but I just think there are too few concrete responsibilities, which isn't ideal to me.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Hmm... I must be thinking of something else.  Nevermind.

[Talleyrand]

Joint Assembly appointments were removed in order to facilitate joint Senate and Superior Court appointments, and also because there was some concern whether the line between the executive and legislative branches would be blurred in our region.

Anyway, I think we should go with the current bill and if there are obvious issues with the position, we can come back and change it. Let's not forget that Atlasia is based on change, and it's ever-evolving. We don't always need to maintain the status quo just because "things are okay this way and they've always been this way".

What other responsibilities do you have in mind, Tmth?

[tmthforu94]

None of my ideas have the votes to pass in the Assembly, as they've already been discussed:
It was to implement what I have long advocated for (before the federal amendment, I might add), which is a "hybrid" position with powers in the executive and legislative branch. I think it should at least have some minor role, such as serve as the President of the Assembly, similar what the Lt. does IRL.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

None of my ideas have the votes to pass in the Assembly, as they've already been discussed:
It was to implement what I have long advocated for (before the federal amendment, I might add), which is a "hybrid" position with powers in the executive and legislative branch. I think it should at least have some minor role, such as serve as the President of the Assembly, similar what the Lt. does IRL.

So eliminate the Speaker's role, essentially?

If you guys are happy with the bill as is, I'll support its passage here.

[Talleyrand]

I'm tentatively okay with the bill we have here, as it is possibly the only one which could survive at public vote at this point.

[tmthforu94]

None of my ideas have the votes to pass in the Assembly, as they've already been discussed:
It was to implement what I have long advocated for (before the federal amendment, I might add), which is a "hybrid" position with powers in the executive and legislative branch. I think it should at least have some minor role, such as serve as the President of the Assembly, similar what the Lt. does IRL.

So eliminate the Speaker's role, essentially?

If you guys are happy with the bill as is, I'll support its passage here.

No - they would open and close each session and take over if the Speaker ever has a LOA.