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  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Presidential Election Trends (Moderator: Virginiá)
  A long shadow over America...
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Author Topic: A long shadow over America...  (Read 3415 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
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« on: February 13, 2005, 04:40:33 pm »

I've been doing a little research into why American politics is in the mess it's in right now... and I've come to some interesting conclusions.
I'm too tired to type it all up here now, but what I've decided is the main cause of this has cast a very long shadow over America.

I'll post the whole thing up tomorrow morning
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A18
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2005, 04:56:24 pm »

Campaign Finance Reform is the biggest problem.
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2005, 10:08:38 am »

What is it?
Gerrymandering?
Campaigning on wedge issues?
Candidates funding their campaigns themselves?
Direct personal intervention by Satan?

Stay tuned!
Smiley
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2005, 03:55:34 pm »

Part One

The seeds of the answer are somewhat obvious... Vietnam, the "Culture War", the backlash to the Civil Rights movement... etc, etc, etc... but the thing is, there had been issues like those before, there have been since... but none have lasted and infested American politics at a federal level in the way that the issues spawned at the fag end of the '60's.
One of the main reason for the survival of these issues (which are the primary cause of much of the bitterness that's been a big feature of federal politics in the last 35 or so years) is because one bitter, paranoid and quite possibly insane, politician (and his small circle of advisors/cronies) grasped the unpleasant idea that by careful and cynical use of issues that place different ethnic, religious, social and racial groups with similer economic interests on opposite sides in what is essentially a meaningless debate, there is much political capital to be made... especially if said groups are the core voters of you're opponents party.

Part Two soon
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DanielX
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2005, 03:59:02 pm »

So, you're blaming every problem of the past 30 years on Richard Nixon? I mean, he had a lot to do with these things, but I don't quite think he's to blame for everything...

I mean, everyone from Lyndon Johnson to Lee Atwater to Huey Newton to Joe Stalin has to share the blame.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2005, 04:12:12 pm »

So, you're blaming every problem of the past 30 years on Richard Nixon? I mean, he had a lot to do with these things, but I don't quite think he's to blame for everything...

I mean, everyone from Lyndon Johnson to Lee Atwater to Huey Newton to Joe Stalin has to share the blame.

I haven't finished yet Wink
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2005, 04:18:54 pm »

Direct Personal Intervention by Satan it is! Smiley
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Notre Dame rules!
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2005, 12:09:12 am »

Wedge issues.   He's blaming Clinton and his triangulating mastermind, Dick Morris.
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Citizen James
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2005, 03:25:03 pm »

Direct Personal Intervention by Satan it is! Smiley

You mean Karl Rove (aka the Prince of Darkness)? Wink
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Notre Dame rules!
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2005, 10:22:31 pm »

Oh yeah, him too!
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2005, 10:22:55 am »

Al, could you please clear this up? Thanks. Smiley
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Polkergeist
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2005, 07:31:47 am »

So, you're blaming every problem of the past 30 years on Richard Nixon? I mean, he had a lot to do with these things, but I don't quite think he's to blame for everything...

I mean, everyone from Lyndon Johnson to Lee Atwater to Huey Newton to Joe Stalin has to share the blame.

Sorry to steal your thunder Al, But Daniel X has hit the nail on the head
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ATFFL
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2005, 08:02:44 am »

I still think he is talking about those ships from Independence Day.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2005, 08:40:23 am »

I really don't see that our politics is in any more of a mess than it ever was.

People usually vote their fears, not their hopes, and every politician knows this, and uses it.  Roosevelt waged a hate campaign against the wealthy that prologed the depression, Truman was anti-business.  I could go down the list.

Nixon addressed legitimate issues that were of great concern to many Americans.  It infuriates me to hear people insinuate that opposition to crime is racism.  First of all, that mentality is in and of itself racist, because it implies that it is primarily blacks that commit crimes.  It also implies that innocent people should accept crime, and that it is not a legitimate issue.

The bitter truth is that the Democrats had their turn at bat in the 1960s, and struck out miserably.  They campaigned on peace and brought war.  They tried to eradicate poverty, but entrenched it more deeply.  They brought about huge increases in crime through their policies of rehabilitation of criminals rather than punishment.  Without punishment, there's no reason for criminals to want to be rehabililitated.  They dangerously weakened our defenses.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out these facts to the American people.  When the Democrats blame Nixon for some of our current divisions, they are really seeking to deflect blame for their own role in it.
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Cashcow
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2005, 07:33:43 pm »

I really don't see that our politics is in any more of a mess than it ever was.

People usually vote their fears, not their hopes, and every politician knows this, and uses it.  Roosevelt waged a hate campaign against the wealthy that prologed the depression, Truman was anti-business.  I could go down the list.

Nixon addressed legitimate issues that were of great concern to many Americans.  It infuriates me to hear people insinuate that opposition to crime is racism.  First of all, that mentality is in and of itself racist, because it implies that it is primarily blacks that commit crimes.  It also implies that innocent people should accept crime, and that it is not a legitimate issue.

The bitter truth is that the Democrats had their turn at bat in the 1960s, and struck out miserably.  They campaigned on peace and brought war.  They tried to eradicate poverty, but entrenched it more deeply.  They brought about huge increases in crime through their policies of rehabilitation of criminals rather than punishment.  Without punishment, there's no reason for criminals to want to be rehabililitated.  They dangerously weakened our defenses.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out these facts to the American people.  When the Democrats blame Nixon for some of our current divisions, they are really seeking to deflect blame for their own role in it.

And, of course, your party had absolutely no role in this.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2005, 07:22:07 am »

I really don't see that our politics is in any more of a mess than it ever was.

People usually vote their fears, not their hopes, and every politician knows this, and uses it.  Roosevelt waged a hate campaign against the wealthy that prologed the depression, Truman was anti-business.  I could go down the list.

Nixon addressed legitimate issues that were of great concern to many Americans.  It infuriates me to hear people insinuate that opposition to crime is racism.  First of all, that mentality is in and of itself racist, because it implies that it is primarily blacks that commit crimes.  It also implies that innocent people should accept crime, and that it is not a legitimate issue.

The bitter truth is that the Democrats had their turn at bat in the 1960s, and struck out miserably.  They campaigned on peace and brought war.  They tried to eradicate poverty, but entrenched it more deeply.  They brought about huge increases in crime through their policies of rehabilitation of criminals rather than punishment.  Without punishment, there's no reason for criminals to want to be rehabililitated.  They dangerously weakened our defenses.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out these facts to the American people.  When the Democrats blame Nixon for some of our current divisions, they are really seeking to deflect blame for their own role in it.

And, of course, your party had absolutely no role in this.

No role in what, the fact that the Democrats screwed everything up when they had all the power in Washington?  I'm not sure what you're getting at.
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Cashcow
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2005, 11:40:53 pm »

I find it reasonably amusing that the conservatives, who literally own the United States (all three branches, all major businesses, most of the states, just about everything except the media), are still able to blame what has become all but the minority party for all of the nation's troubles. Cut them some slack - anything that happens from this point on will have the blame placed on you, and only you - for good reason.

I should also note that I am by no means a Democrat.
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Notre Dame rules!
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2005, 11:41:28 pm »

How is it in such a mess?  Bush has set his agenda, of which much is getting passed.  Our majorities in both Houses have increased, as has our majorities in State Houses.  One Party is in disarray, but that doesn't mean the the political system is.
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Beet
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2005, 03:16:31 am »

America's political system is remarkably balanced compared to other countries. Between 1934 and 2002, no party ever won more than two consecutive election cycles in a row, and the last century has seen near parity in the number of Republican and Democratic presidents. There is a constitutional prohibition against serving more than 8 years, and White House controlled has always switched within 12 years since WW2. The only exception to this has been the Democrats' near continuous control of Congress from 1933-1995 with the exception of 1947-49, 1953-55, and the Senate in 1980-86. However, this has been balanced by the diversity of the party (they were actually 2 parties, the Democrats and Dixiecrats, and without the latter the GOP would have taken Congress several times between '55 and '94) and the fact that undivided government control lasted relatively short periods (1961-69, 1977-81, 1993-95).

Contrast this to Japan, which has had one-party role for all but 1 year since 1955. Germany and the UK, where Kohl and Thatcher-Major recently stood at the head of unified parliamentary majorities for 16 and 18 years, respectively. Until Willy Brandt's election in 1970, no leftist had ever won in Germany. And prior to 1964, Conservatives/Tories ruled for all but about 10 years. In France, the Gaullists had continuous control of the Fifth Republican from its inception until 1981. In Canada, the Liberal party has simply dominated the 20th century. The same goes with the Australian Liberal party. In Paraguay, leftist governments had never been elected in the nations' entire history until this year. In Mexico of course, the PDP-I ruled continuously until 2000. The list goes on...
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2005, 01:14:36 pm »

The '64 election was in retrospect the most important Postwar U.K election (especially in the Liverpool area).
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2005, 11:01:05 am »

You still haven't told us what this whole thread really is about.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2005, 11:13:35 am »

You still haven't told us what this whole thread really is about.

All my files got wiped a week or so ago Angry
I'm having to redo the whole f****** thing...
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