Opinion of Eamon de Valera

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Sacred Atlasian tradition of having a bitchfest battle over Mr. de Valera question.

[DC Al Fine]

Trad con=FF

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Trad con=FF

Not by any means.

Anyway, This is too complicated to answer fully in a format smaller than that of an Essay (but most certainly not 'FF').

[Oakvale]

There is no other option than "Mixed".

[argentarius]

Mega HP for me.

[minionofmidas]

Both, but I voted FF to tie the poll up 5-5-5.

[afleitch]

Ireland was basically a Horrible Country until about a generation ago and de Valera was an HP. Not the people of course (people are almost always infinitely better than their rulers) He bears a huge responsibility for signing Ireland up (quite literally, in terms of the Constitution) to Catholic social policy and inflicting censorship laws that were comparable to Franco's Spain.

[patrick1]

Ireland was basically a Horrible Country until about a generation ago and de Valera was an HP. Not the people of course (people are almost always infinitely better than their rulers) He bears a huge responsibility for signing Ireland up (quite literally, in terms of the Constitution) to Catholic social policy and inflicting censorship laws that were comparable to Franco's Spain.

Yeah, well uh that is just because you do not like comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

[minionofmidas]

Ireland was basically a Horrible Country until about a generation ago and de Valera was an HP. Not the people of course (people are almost always infinitely better than their rulers) He bears a huge responsibility for signing Ireland up (quite literally, in terms of the Constitution) to Catholic social policy and inflicting censorship laws that were comparable to Franco's Spain.

Yeah, well uh that is just because you do not like comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

I do, I just don't like it when they're overdressed for the occasion.

[patrick1]

Ireland was basically a Horrible Country until about a generation ago and de Valera was an HP. Not the people of course (people are almost always infinitely better than their rulers) He bears a huge responsibility for signing Ireland up (quite literally, in terms of the Constitution) to Catholic social policy and inflicting censorship laws that were comparable to Franco's Spain.

Yeah, well uh that is just because you do not like comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

I do, I just don't like it when they're overdressed for the occasion.

Quite. Just too damn cold for the lassies in the Galtee mountain air. Maybe the Brits weren't so wrong about this whole Van Diemens Land business. 

[minionofmidas]

Ireland was basically a Horrible Country until about a generation ago and de Valera was an HP. Not the people of course (people are almost always infinitely better than their rulers) He bears a huge responsibility for signing Ireland up (quite literally, in terms of the Constitution) to Catholic social policy and inflicting censorship laws that were comparable to Franco's Spain.

Yeah, well uh that is just because you do not like comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

I do, I just don't like it when they're overdressed for the occasion.

Quite. Just too damn cold for the lassies in the Galtee mountain air. Maybe the Brits weren't so wrong about this whole Van Diemens Land business. 

Maybe seasonal selfdeportation is the way forward?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

There is no other option than "Mixed".

This.

Incidentally, I'm not sure The Ireland That We Dreamed Of was really that much more twisted and bankrupt as a concept than the Celtic Tiger turned out to be, just in different ways.

[You kip if you want to...]

Vile person.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Incidentally, I'm not sure The Ireland That We Dreamed Of was really that much more twisted and bankrupt as a concept than the Celtic Tiger turned out to be, just in different ways.

It is, appropriately enough given Irish politics, like choosing between sh[inks]it and sh[inks]ite.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Vile person.

Oh yes. And a supporter of Franco and showed sympathy toward Hitler.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

There is no other option than "Mixed".

This.

Incidentally, I'm not sure The Ireland That We Dreamed Of was really that much more twisted and bankrupt as a concept than the Celtic Tiger turned out to be, just in different ways.

I think that is patently obvious to everyone by now. At least the Celtic Tiger did not ever justify the silence over the mass sex abuse/enforced slavery of poor, inner-city kids. Nobody really quotes that speech now except in mockery.

Vile person.

Oh yes. And a supporter of Franco and showed sympathy toward Hitler.

No. Haven't I taught you anything on this by now?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Incidentally, I'm not sure The Ireland That We Dreamed Of was really that much more twisted and bankrupt as a concept than the Celtic Tiger turned out to be, just in different ways.

It is, appropriately enough given Irish politics, like choosing between sh[inks]it and sh[inks]ite.

Ah it was ever thus.

Fianna Fail are back to second in the polls, only eight behind FG whose 'support' is predictably crumbling away.

Just in time for Ivan Yates or Sean Gallagher to launch their third party.

[Oakvale]

I'm not what you'd call De Valera's biggest fan (largely for the reasons afleitch listed) but calling him a "vile person" is a bit odd.

Incidentally, I'm not sure The Ireland That We Dreamed Of was really that much more twisted and bankrupt as a concept than the Celtic Tiger turned out to be, just in different ways.

I'd still take post-Celtic Tiger Ireland over De Valera's dream Ireland any day, but then it's not like the Celtic Tiger was responsible for effectively destroying the Catholic Church in Ireland...

It is, appropriately enough given Irish politics, like choosing between sh[inks]it and sh[inks]ite.

Ah it was ever thus.

Fianna Fail are back to second in the polls, only eight behind FG whose 'support' is predictably crumbling away.

Just in time for Ivan Yates or Sean Gallagher to launch their third party.

Seán Quinn for Taoiseach!

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I'm not what you'd call De Valera's biggest fan (largely for the reasons afleitch listed) but calling him a "vile person" is a bit odd.

Incidentally, I'm not sure The Ireland That We Dreamed Of was really that much more twisted and bankrupt as a concept than the Celtic Tiger turned out to be, just in different ways.

I'd still take post-Celtic Tiger Ireland over De Valera's dream Ireland any day, but then it's not like the Celtic Tiger was responsible for effectively destroying the Catholic Church in Ireland...

It is, appropriately enough given Irish politics, like choosing between sh[inks]it and sh[inks]ite.

Ah it was ever thus.

Fianna Fail are back to second in the polls, only eight behind FG whose 'support' is predictably crumbling away.

Just in time for Ivan Yates or Sean Gallagher to launch their third party.

Seán Quinn for Taoiseach!

I don't want even to imagine that option (If there was an election now, I'm sure he would run in Cavan-Monaghan and win a seat easily... which is a fact that shouldn't be dwelled upon for even a second by anyone sane).

I would argue that the Keltic Tigah did help destroy the Church as it helped create that bastard materialist culture that existed c1995-2008 but it was a very minor role. The Church was too busy discrediting itself.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

There is no other option than "Mixed".

This.

Incidentally, I'm not sure The Ireland That We Dreamed Of was really that much more twisted and bankrupt as a concept than the Celtic Tiger turned out to be, just in different ways.

I think that is patently obvious to everyone by now. At least the Celtic Tiger did not ever justify the silence over the mass sex abuse/enforced slavery of poor, inner-city kids. Nobody really quotes that speech now except in mockery.

Very true. There was a very specific set of profoundly nasty undertones to a lot of this sort of early-to-mid-twentieth-century Catholic social policy. See also the amazingly, one finds oneself almost wanting to say uniquely, despicable Maurice Duplessis.

I would argue that the Keltic Tigah did help destroy the Church as it helped create that bastard materialist culture that existed c1995-2008 but it was a very minor role. The Church was too busy discrediting itself.

I'm tempted to see De Valera's, uh, odd dream and the Celtic Tiger as having a distinctly dialectical relationship to each other. So far, from the perspective of an observer who spent time in Ireland as a child but lives thousands of miles away, the synthesis, such as it is, seems kind of crap.

[minionofmidas]

There was a very specific set of profoundly nasty undertones to a lot of this sort of early-to-mid-twentieth-century Catholic social policy.

Oh yes. One needs to remember that from time to time in order to be able to happily stomach the sometimes somewhat strange antiCatholicism of certain leftwing writers of the interwar years.

[Јas]

Happy Christmas BRTD

[Oldiesfreak1854]

FF, although I would get kicked out of my church for saying that.

[Oakvale]

FF, although I would get kicked out of my church for saying that.

Do you go to some kind of militant Northern Irish unionist-affiliated church?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Vile person.

Oh yes. And a supporter of Franco and showed sympathy toward Hitler.

Dev rejected all demands to support Franco during the Spanish Civil War.