Shooting at CT elementary school leaves at least 27 dead, 18 of them children

[© tweed]

I am an addict myself and know plenty of other addicts, within and without the family, those who have gotten sober and those who haven't.

I have also been to 25 or so 12-step meetings, 5 or so non 12-step meetings, have a living grandfather who is 35 years off of booze and initially got sober through a 12-step inpatient rehab program, etc.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I am an addict myself and know plenty of other addicts, within and without the family, those who have gotten sober and those who haven't.

I have also been to 25 or so 12-step meetings, 5 or so non 12-step meetings, have a living grandfather who is 35 years off of booze and initially got sober through a 12-step inpatient rehab program, etc.

And I have a brother and sister who were drug addicts that successfully kicked the habit in an inpatient treatment program.  Alcoholism runs rampant in my dad's side of the family.  Both my grandparents were alcoholics til the day they died.  My uncle is a recovering alcoholic.  Somehow my dad bucked the trend, though there were signs early on that he might be one... but he successfully stopped and didn't have a drop for 10 years before he drank again.. and to this day he drinks only occasionally and in moderation.

It can be done on your own in a few cases.  But most people benefit immensely from a support group of people in various stages of the recovery process with the guidance of trained professionals who devote their lives to helping people recover.

I can only think that your original post on the matter wasn't serious...

Because all the post told me was "minimize/justify".

[© tweed]

the majority of people throughout human history, and perhaps (40-60%) today, quit addictions without the help of support groups.  the most prevalent addiction to be quit is nicotine in the form of smoking tobacco and the vast majority (>90%) of those who quit smoking tobacco do so without the help of support groups.

[7,052,770]

Does anyone have the numbers for the number of children killed by guns every year?  I realize I could Google it, but I want actual, unbiased numbers...

So nobody knows?

[© tweed]

Does anyone have the numbers for the number of children killed by guns every year?  I realize I could Google it, but I want actual, unbiased numbers...

So nobody knows?

somebody on Twitter said 8 in the USA per day, can't verify that.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Just ban guns.  Make every single gun ing illegal.  Lets become a civilized country.  It's 2012 not 1791.
I want to be free to leave my house in the morning without being in danger of being shot by some gun nut.  Respect my freedom please (and no, I am not going to buy a gun to protect myself because I am only protected when none of you have a gun)!  I don't want to live in a society of fear where everyone carries a gun.

[ilikeverin]

Does anyone have the numbers for the number of children killed by guns every year?  I realize I could Google it, but I want actual, unbiased numbers...

So nobody knows?

I did find a good story with actual cited facts in it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

[tmthforu94]

So tragic. Drove me to tears reading about this, then hearing all of the individual stories. I've always been a huge advocate of gun rights, but it is now clear to me that we need many more restrictions on them - we can't let this happen again.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Does anyone have the numbers for the number of children killed by guns every year?  I realize I could Google it, but I want actual, unbiased numbers...

So nobody knows?

I did find a good story with actual cited facts in it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

That was a most informative article.

[Dave from Michigan]

It seems a lot of you guys think we need more gun control. How exactly will more gun control prevent these kinds of shootings or gun violence in general.

[Lief 🗽]

It seems a lot of you guys think we need more gun control. How exactly will more gun control prevent these kinds of shootings or gun violence in general.

Guns are incredibly deadly weapons. Make it much harder for people to get these incredibly deadly weapons, and fewer people will be slaughtered with them. It's not that complicated.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

with all of life now filtered through these screens, these media forms, it isn't real for me, I can say that.  this is no different than watching people play roles in a movie, and I will have energy for listening to the details.

Right here, folks, is part of the problem.

Agreed. I have to say since coming to college and not getting to watch much television, everything seems so much more distant, unimportant.  We all react to our little screens, here in the library, and get on with out lives. Nothing stops, not even for a moment.

I'll second this. Before college, I would have been really distraught and doing as much research on gun control/mental health as possible. Now that I am done with the semester and home, I just want to relax and get on with my life.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

It seems a lot of you guys think we need more gun control. How exactly will more gun control prevent these kinds of shootings or gun violence in general.

Guns are incredibly deadly weapons. Make it much harder for people to get these incredibly deadly weapons, and fewer people will be slaughtered with them. It's not that complicated.

Caveat: there is a negative relationship between firearm violence and knife violence, which is problematic.

[Beet]

I'm in favor of moderate gun control, against further liberalizing of gun laws.

But the real problem is the sacred place that guns have in our society. In my personal opinion a lot of people in this country have an exaggerated opinion of the usefulness of guns and emotional investment in seeing guns as cool and rebellious. The whole notion that it's a political statement to ostentatiously have big guns or carry a gun around, like it makes them a better person. A lot of people think that. Guns are what they are, neither inherently good or bad, I wish we would not invest them with all of this spiritual significance. They're a tool and a potential weapon, but there's nothing magical about them. I honestly think that if people saw guns like they saw everything else, in a more objective way, the entire gun control debate would be unnecessary because we as a society would just pass whatever makes the most sense and no one would object. And if people stopped seeing guns as cool or attractive or glamorous and saw them as unattractive, ugly objects, and voluntarily opt out of them, that would do more than any law to reduce the number of guns out there and the chance for gun violence. Meanwhile those who really do have a good use for guns would have to contend with let crap from all the people who shouldn't have but do and give all gun owners a bad name.

But that's not my call to make, since I was never a part of that culture to begin with.

[badgate]

Did y'all know that some news outlets released the best available information earlier today saying they thought the shooter was a student's father? Turns out they were wrong. I guess we can also rule out those news outlets from being nominated Secretary of State...

[Lief 🗽]

The NRA continues to be scum:

[Beet]

Yeah, that's exactly my point. The NRA isn't just advocating against laws restricting guns, they're advocating for the inherent goodness of guns themselves. It's as if Planned Parenthood spent its days propagandizing for abortion itself, rather than simply the right to have them. That's my objection to the pro-gun groups these days. I'm willing to live with lax gun laws but I don't see why they have to push their lifestyle.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

The NRA continues to be scum:

That's not from the NRA.

[Paul Kemp]

Turns out the shooter's mother didn't actually work at the school, which makes it slightly more disturbing...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2012/12/14/details-emerge-about-family-of-suspected-newtown-school-gunman/?KEYWORDS=TAMER+EL-GHOBASHY

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

It seems a lot of you guys think we need more gun control. How exactly will more gun control prevent these kinds of shootings or gun violence in general.

Guns are incredibly deadly weapons. Make it much harder for people to get these incredibly deadly weapons, and fewer people will be slaughtered with them. It's not that complicated.

Caveat: there is a negative relationship between firearm violence and knife violence, which is problematic.

It's much harder to commit a massacre with a blade rather than a firearm.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I don't think it makes it any more disturbing.  It's not like I'm going "Oh thank God.. he only shot 20 children and 6 adults because he was aiming for his mom, who worked there."

[Zioneer]

How many times do we have to see this happen before we do something, anything about it? Not even with guns, but with mental health?

Because according to the usual suspects here, that would be considered discrimination against the mentally ill, and they won't stand for it.  

who said that?

Read.

And for the record, I don't make distinctions regarding the mentally ill.  If you have a mental illness, you shouldn't have access to guns.  Period.  No exceptions, and I don't give a damn how discriminatory it is.  

Agreed. Heck, I have a non-violent mental disorder (high-functioning autism) and I don't think I should have access to guns.

[J. J.]

Just ban guns.  Make every single gun ing illegal.  Lets become a civilized country.  It's 2012 not 1791.
I want to be free to leave my house in the morning without being in danger of being shot by some gun nut.  Respect my freedom please (and no, I am not going to buy a gun to protect myself because I am only protected when none of you have a gun)!  I don't want to live in a society of fear where everyone carries a gun.

Why not increase involuntary commitments and expand mental hospitals, since Lanza was still dangerous without a gun.  We can lock people up that we think are crazy.  And since there might be a genetic component, we can lock up their families, just to be safe, right?[/sarcasm]

Seriously, look at the ages of the shooters and look at the profile for schizophrenia.  These are almost classic cases.  And then look at people like John Nash, who did overcome it.

Remember that one of the greatest mass murderers did it with a bomb, not a gun.

[tmthforu94]

I don't think it makes it any more disturbing.  It's not like I'm going "Oh thank God.. he only shot 20 children and 6 adults because he was aiming for his mom, who worked there."

Agreed, especially considering that he killed her, then went to the school. What was going through his head? "Well, I'm going to prison now, so I might as well cause a big scene and be remembered for something."

What a disgusting man. There's a special place in hell for him.

[Paul Kemp]

I don't think it makes it any more disturbing.  It's not like I'm going "Oh thank God.. he only shot 20 children and 6 adults because he was aiming for his mom, who worked there."

Yes but there would be a small amount of logic if that was the case. I'm not saying it makes a huge difference but to go out of your way to kill a group of innocent children you have no connection to (as far as we know so far) is just . . . I don't even know . . . but it's not that same.

No one would find comfort or justification in those details. That's not what I was saying.