NE2: Year Round School Act

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

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Sponsor: Simfan

Simfan, you have 24 hours to advocate for this bill. Debate time will last 72 hours total.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I don't agree with this bill.  While I believe wholeheartedly that our education system is in need of reform, I don't think the length of the school year is necessarily a major factor in its quality, but rather the way education itself is structured in our country.  And before there is any discussion over how long or how short our school days are, I think a full reinvention of teaching must be implemented.  I understand that many think lengthening the school year will be better for students because they will be less likely to forget what they learned over a long summer break.  And to those who suggest this, I believe they are looking at this issue the wrong way: education should not be focused on memorization, because most people forget 90% of what they've learned in primary schools long after they've graduated.  Redistributing the amount of breaks students have probably won't fix this, because then teachers will hardly have enough time to get through a unit or topic if there's frequently a nine-day break they have to work around.

[Goldwater]

Will this effect private schools?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

This article might be worth reading for some of you.  As it states, there simply isn't any evidence that longer school years improve student learning, and the major variables differentiating us from Finland, a world leader in education, have nothing to do with instructional time.

[Barnes]

I agree with Scott here - the difference in education is not how long you learn something for, but how you learn something to begin with.

The Finnish model will be promising to examine - when I attended the Georgia Governor's Honors Program over the summer, we discussed it quite a bit in my education minor.

[Simfan34]

The President is correct, this bill would help serve to stem the "brain drain" suffered by students in the summer. It would balance students schedules in more sustainable and less taxing blocs of schedules. While it would add 10 days to the school year, it would allow for moderately long breaks in between. Anyway, the focus is not added length, but schedule reorganization.

Many, many studies have shown modest increases in academic performance under year-round schedules. At-risk students have been shown to especially benefit from substantial gain in academic achievement under year round schedules. More frequent, short breaks provide struggling students more time for help. These breaks can be used for remedial courses, tutoring, and enrichment, if needed.

It provides more time for balanced vacations, helping businesses year-round. It would further working opportunities for teens. Also, buildings that usually go unused for long periods- highly inefficiently- will be used.

I am not sure what the Governor-elect is speaking about, even if he is correct in that "a full reinvention of teaching must be implemented"- this is part of that. Students are, and always have been, taught. They often forget such things. I am also perplexed by his comments on "frequent nine day breaks" when we have 60 day school sessions and 20 day breaks.

Will this effect private schools?

I had anticipated it would, but if the members of the Assembly do not desire it, we can add an amendment.

EDIT: I recall a good NPR piece on year round schools. Ah, here it is!

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Sorry -- I misread the bill.  I thought the bill was allowing for twenty five-day breaks.

The thing is, this bill doesn't reinvent education in spite of its good intentions.  It just makes it longer.  If you have more of a bad thing, you won't get better results.  If we didn't have an education system that was so deeply flawed and memorization-focused, I'd look at the merits of having a longer school year, but even then, I believe students ought to have at least two months of time off from school, and the summer is the most appropriate time for that.

We should focus on ending the "brain drain" long term, for a lifetime, not just until the next test or graduation time.  To do that, we must foster a system that allows students to be creative and find their own path to success, just as so many successful people of this decade have done.  Instead, we look at our students as a sheet of cookie dough for which we can cut out the same shapes and bake the same way.  This bill doesn't address that problem.

[Barnes]

Sorry -- I misread the bill.  I thought the bill was allowing for twenty five-day breaks.

The thing is, this bill doesn't reinvent education in spite of its good intentions.  It just makes it longer.  If you have more of a bad thing, you won't get better results.  If we didn't have an education system that was so deeply flawed and memorization-focused, I'd look at the merits of having a longer school year, but even then, I believe students ought to have at least two months of time off from school, and the summer is the most appropriate time for that.

We should focus on ending the "brain drain" long term, for a lifetime, not just until the next test or graduation time.

I will introduce legislation to create a GHP-like program in the Northeast; hopefully this will work to address the brain drain. I encourage everyone to read this, pretty please.

http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/School-Improvement/GHP/Pages/default.aspx

[Simfan34]

What do you propose then, Mr. Governor-elect? Our system may not be perfect, but it's hardly bad. Once again, the focus is not upon length, but the organization of the days. Students shall still get their time off, just at different times.

Representative Barnes, I think that is an excellent idea and would support such legislation.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I think we should look into Barnes's suggestion, instead.  The way I see it, organization and length are kind of the same thing, and neither of them tackle the underlying issue.

[Barnes]

And Simfan, I don't mean to blow off your bill, perhaps we could do this as a pilot program in willing school districts for a few years - instead if the entire region?

[Simfan34]

I think we should look into Barnes's suggestion, instead.  The way I see it, organization and length are kind of the same thing, and neither of them tackle the underlying issue.

Barnes' suggestion cannot replace this, but it can work in tandem.

And Simfan, I don't mean to blow off your bill, perhaps we could do this as a pilot program in willing school districts for a few years - instead if the entire region?

Why? It's worked in several states before. How would we determine eligibility? You had an excellent idea- I think it is, at least- it obviously works, as you said, so let's go! But that is another bill.

Also, more information can be found here.

[Barnes]

I think we should look into Barnes's suggestion, instead.  The way I see it, organization and length are kind of the same thing, and neither of them tackle the underlying issue.

Barnes' suggestion cannot replace this, but it can work in tandem?

And Simfan, I don't mean to blow off your bill, perhaps we could do this as a pilot program in willing school districts for a few years - instead if the entire region?

Why? It's worked in several states before. How would we determine eligibility? You had an excellent idea- I think it is, at least- it obviously works, as you said, so let's go! But that is another bill.

I was referring to having a pilot for the "Year Round School Act" to see it effectiveness before we try to implement it region-wide.

[Goldwater]

I would like to propose an amendment.

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[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I'm still reluctant to support this... here's another article I found showing that year-round schooling really doesn't impact much.  Some schools may be successful than others, but substance is what matters most, and learning style is what divides good schools from the unsuccessful ones.  Once again, I contend that distribution of vacation days/length of school years just aren't a significant factor, and I'd rather start with Barnes's idea or other approaches and take things from there.

I really can't mess around with this right now, so I'll continue discussion tomorrow.

[Simfan34]

The amendment is friendly. Governor scott, I believe the links I provided show several studies do show year-round schooling does have a positive effect.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

And the links I posted say that instruction time won't change the performance of students or make our education system more identical to the successful Finnish model, and often result in the overcrowding of schools.

It appears we have conflicting data here...

[Simfan34]

Governor, you keep on mentioning this "Finnish model" as if it were some inherent goal. I am aware of Finland's strong education system, but we haven't appraised its benefits or even said what it entails. So I'm lost as to why it becomes some sort of benchmark against which we are to judge this bill. I am moderately familiar with the Finnish system, however, and I think my Teacher Quality Act in part moves us towards it, I believe.

I shall stick with my data. I am also lost as to how this causes overcrowding-nowhere do I see an increase in students!

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Well, then I suppose I will stick with my data as well, then.

Here are some features of the Finnish education system (source: Washington Post):

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Class instruction time isn't mentioned anywhere on this.  These are, I believe, the goals that we need to work toward.  I agree with the virtues of your Securing Teacher Excellence Act, and I'm much more likely to sign a bill like that.  Even so, however, we should make the effort to prevent the possibility of teacher shortages.  That, unfortunately, may be an obstacle to any education reform effort.

[Simfan34]

Governor, that's honestly as relevant as saying that this bill doesn't designate chocolate ice cream as our official desert. This bill is not meant to be a wholesale reform. Your Finnish model is great in many ways, but in no way does this bill counteract it or affect its implementation. Your system and this bill are not at odds. Nor must we copy their system wholesale. I, for one, see no one proposing we conduct instruction in Finnish.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Governor, that's honestly as relevant as saying that this bill doesn't designate chocolate ice cream as our official desert. This bill is not meant to be a wholesale reform. Your Finnish model is great in many ways, but in no way does this bill counteract it or affect its implementation. Your system and this bill are not at odds.

Well, my point to all of this is that I don't believe this bill is necessary because I don't think there's anything wrong with the current distribution of school and vacation days.  Giving students two months in the summer time to spend with their families, thereby giving them and their families more flexibility over where and when to vacation, isn't what's so deteriorating to the education of our youth.  If we're going on the mentality that students should have their days ordered this way just so they can memorize more things, then we clearly need to rethink how we're approaching this issue in the first place, from the bottom up.

To put it simply: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Simfan34]

We are not trying to cram more in their heads, just make sure what we do sticks. And it is very much, broken, governor. And if vacation flexibility is what you want, then the year round schedule gives you more time spread throughout the year, and not just a 2 month bloc in which families must confine themselves to.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

We are not trying to cram more in their heads, just make sure what we do sticks. And it is very much, broken, governor.

I agree, it is.  The way we order the school calendar is not.

I would argue that parents would have a slightly more difficult time finding vacation days in the summer, since that's when most vacations are taken.  Some families might need longer than a week if they travel far, others might need more available days to book hotels.  It's better to afford them that time of the year to plan those.

[Simfan34]

Well, obviously, Governor, if we spread out that time, we'd see more vacations taken at other parts of the year, where the wait isn't as long, and additionally all that summer demand would fall, negating the need for longer time to arrange vacations.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Well, obviously, Governor, if we spread out that time, we'd see more vacations taken at other parts of the year, where the wait isn't as long, and additionally all that summer demand would fall, negating the need for longer time to arrange vacations.

Not all vacations are just a week long.  If, for example, a student is going on a European tour, it would be necessary for that to be in the summer when they have more than just a week.  The current calendar still allows students breaks in the winter and sometimes two in the spring, depending on the district.  Those, obviously, would be more appropriate for shorter vacations.