SENATE BILL: LGBT Dignity Act (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: Marokai Blue

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Marokai you have 24 hours to argue for this.


Isn't Transgender usually included, or do these institutions not try to change them?

[Franzl]

This has my full and unwavering support.

[Gass3268]

This is a great bill, but why is it just LGB instead of LGBT?

[Redalgo]

I must echo the sentiments of Franzl and Gass, and call on soon-to-be Senator Julio to afford this bill his utmost support. However, I would much prefer to this to apply to the LGBT community as a whole instead of excluding the transgendered. Or may there be something else about this legislation I've overlooked?

[Marokai Backbeat]

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Why I sort of forgot about that was because this is based on an old proposal once proposed (and enthusiastically supported by me at the time) Afleitch, which didn't include transgenderism for whatever reason. So I propose this amendment, and now it shall!

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

This bill has my full support.  I am hopeful that soon-to-be Senator Nix will back this legislation.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

wasn't there something about freedom of speech and freedom of association in that constitution of ours?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely personally alligned with the goals of this bill, but everyone has the right to set up their own practice. No one should be forced to attend these so-called clinics, but I don't see how we can conscionably force their closure. It leads us down a slippery slope.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'd support this bill for my soul mate Marokai, but it would surely be overturned by the Supreme Court

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Maybe as a compromise we should require these institutions to be transparent and honest about the risks associated with receiving the "treatment?"  I also think we absolutely should disallow minors from attending these clinics even if it's at the request of their parents.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I do not support watering down this bill. These institutions are harmful and without any, any basis on science. They have absolutely no reason to exist, full stop. I would still vote for a bill that merely banned minors from being able to attend regardless of what their parents want, but I just can't be happy about compromising on an issue like this.

I'd support this bill for my soul mate Marokai, but it would surely be overturned by the Supreme Court

That was true in the days of the Sam Spade court. But we're dealing with new folks now!

[Sbane]

I fully support this and hopefully Oakvale will as well when he replaces me.

[Napoleon]

The bill is constitutional as is.

Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely personally alligned with the goals of this bill, but everyone has the right to set up their own practice. No one should be forced to attend these so-called clinics, but I don't see how we can conscionably force their closure. It leads us down a slippery slope.

Slippery slope to what?

[Marokai Backbeat]

The bill is constitutional as is.

For the record I absolutely agree.

[Barnes]

Yea, senate pride!

[HagridOfTheDeep]

"Reparative therapy clinics practice beliefs that are not based in science!" "Reparative therapy clinics are no longer allowed!"

"Freemasonry practices beliefs that are not based in science!" "Freemasonry is no longer allowed!"

I guess people are just choosing to ignore the fact that all Atlasian citizens are guaranteed the rights to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. You might choose to argue that this bill deals with health issues and that freedom of assembly is irrelevant. Fine. I would then suggest that you look to alternative medicine in the United States. Alternative medicine has been slightly regulated, but it has not been banned outright, as it is not the government's prerogative to tell people what they should believe. If people choose to put their faith in alternative medicine, so be it. Moreover, these practices are often invasive (people ingest questionable medicines), yet, for the most part, they are allowed. Reparative therapy does not do physical harm to a person. Thus, if alternative medicine is acceptable, I don't see how we can say, in any official capacity, that reparative therapy is not.

That being said, I would actually be happy to regulate the reparative therapy "industry." However, banning it outright is an overreach that I will not support.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Fine, then you are free to not support it. The Senate doesn't require unanimous consent to make law.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

The president asked me a question, and I guess I got a little carried away.

And in all fairness... the thread title does say "debating."

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

Please for god's sake don't post a text, and then a paragraph with the only indication that it is an amendment being the last sentence of said paragraph. You messed up my damn tracker.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=99596.0

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=99930.25


I haven't yet commented on the underlying bill, yet and the top link should show you why I have employed such caution up untill now.

Back in 2009, I was a disturbed individual yet one who was still atleast somewhat rational. I would make ridiculous and inarticulate arguments aimed more at stabbing people in the eye (Marokai), then actually trying to successfully advance my own position. Even back then though, even without having been presented with any evidence one way or another as to these institutions' effectiveness and impact on the people they allegedly "treat", I supported the amended form of the LGB act that was later struck down.

The amended bill essentially declared these institutions to be disgusting and barred them from "treating" children. I still think that was the right course, even though I did later criticize the crusade launched (once again, by Marokai) against the Supreme Court for making its decison. Since then I have seen the data on these institutions, and they are in fact disgusting.

However, in spite of that, my position now as it was back then, was that people should be respected in the decisions they choose to make regarding their sexuality. If they choose to suppress their natural orientation, it is not our business to interferre with them in their private lives anymore then we would with people who chose to openly express their natural orientation. Therefore, I am opposed to the underlying bill and any outright ban on these institutions. I would support a bill not only protecting children like last time, but also any people who are mentally ill or otherwise incapable of making a truthfully independent decision, free of coercion. We should also ensure that there is no false adversting, possibly requiring disclaimers that they can't make any scientific guarrantees of success or what not. 

As for this debate thread, I find it disturbing that a certain someone (Marokai yet again), is being hostile to debate again. This is exactly the same thing that happened in 2009, though thankfully Hagrid's "Carried Away" is much less severe, then mine was back in the day.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

In the interests of honesty, I will say that my initial response to Marokai's comment was far more rude and abrupt than the comment you currently see.

Like it or not, this topic is contentious. We have debates in the senate for a reason, and I won't be stopped from participating in these debates when I think a points needs making.

[Frodo]

This bill has my full support, for whatever it's worth.  

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment has passed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Unknown
Status: Pending