Vote to Override Veto on Cabinet Officers and Structure Bill

[Gabu]

As Al has called a vote to override the Presidential Veto on the Cabinet Officers and Structure Bill, here it is.

All senators in favor of overriding the veto, vote "aye"; all senators against, vote "nay".

[Gabu]

As this is one piece of legislation that I'm truly ambivalent on, I abstain again.

[Siege40]

Aye.

Siege

[Nym90]

Aye

[Defarge]

Aye

[WMS]

Abstain. Same reasons as before.

[12th Doctor]

Nay.  This bill will pass over my dead body.

[Bono]

Nay

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Aye (after all the Sec of State & Defense can just appoint a diplomatic/defense advisor)

[Gabu]

Well, I've read John Ford's argument in favor of this bill and have reconsidered this issue, and while I'm still not completely comfortable with the idea of merging State and Defense, I'm going to change my vote to "aye".

[Akno21]

5-2-1.

[Bono]

5-2-1.

Which is 5-3, since in veto votes abstention count as nay votes.

[minionofmidas]

...or rather, have the same effect.
As this vote opened before he was elected, can Ford vote in it? I don't know (though I don't think so), I hope there are people who know.
Anyways, the Senator from Florida hasn't made up his mind yet.

[Nym90]

An abstention counts as a no? I thought we had deterimined that 2/3 of the total Senate wasn't needed, just 2/3 of those who vote either yes or no.

[minionofmidas]

An abstention counts as a no? I thought we had deterimined that 2/3 of the total Senate wasn't needed, just 2/3 of those who vote either yes or no.

Not on an override IMHO.

[Peter]

An abstention counts as a no? I thought we had deterimined that 2/3 of the total Senate wasn't needed, just 2/3 of those who vote either yes or no.

Thats for Amendments. The way the Constitution is worded says that 2/3 of the Senate has to vote for the override:

Article I, Section 5, Clause 5
"But if he or she shall veto it, the bill or resolution shall be of no effect unless the Senate shall vote, two-thirds of the Senators concurring, to override the President's veto."

Concurrence is only provided by an Aye vote, anything else is an effective Nay vote.

[minionofmidas]

What about my Ford question?

[Gabu]

What about my Ford question?

If Ford is sworn in before voting finishes, I don't see why he couldn't vote here.  If we get one more "aye" vote before he's sworn in, however, then we'll have 6 out of 9 senators concurring, which is a two-thirds majority, so it would pass before he was sworn in.  If we get one more "nay" vote, on the other hand, it would be impossible for this to pass either way, so it would fail.

Come to think of it, it doesn't really matter whether or not Ford votes or not, given that I'm pretty sure he'll vote "yes".  It all depends on how StatesRights votes.

[Nym90]

An abstention counts as a no? I thought we had deterimined that 2/3 of the total Senate wasn't needed, just 2/3 of those who vote either yes or no.

Thats for Amendments. The way the Constitution is worded says that 2/3 of the Senate has to vote for the override:

Article I, Section 5, Clause 5
"But if he or she shall veto it, the bill or resolution shall be of no effect unless the Senate shall vote, two-thirds of the Senators concurring, to override the President's veto."

Concurrence is only provided by an Aye vote, anything else is an effective Nay vote.

Hopefully the Constitutional Convention will fix this, as well. I don't see why it should be more difficult to override a veto than it is to pass a Constitutional Amendment. "Abstain" and "Nay" should not mean the same thing, in my opinion.

[Bono]

An abstention counts as a no? I thought we had deterimined that 2/3 of the total Senate wasn't needed, just 2/3 of those who vote either yes or no.

Thats for Amendments. The way the Constitution is worded says that 2/3 of the Senate has to vote for the override:

Article I, Section 5, Clause 5
"But if he or she shall veto it, the bill or resolution shall be of no effect unless the Senate shall vote, two-thirds of the Senators concurring, to override the President's veto."

Concurrence is only provided by an Aye vote, anything else is an effective Nay vote.

Hopefully the Constitutional Convention will fix this, as well. I don't see why it should be more difficult to override a veto than it is to pass a Constitutional Amendment. "Abstain" and "Nay" should not mean the same thing, in my opinion.

Agreed.

[The Duke]

My first act as Senator, I vote aye.

[minionofmidas]

An abstention counts as a no? I thought we had deterimined that 2/3 of the total Senate wasn't needed, just 2/3 of those who vote either yes or no.

Thats for Amendments. The way the Constitution is worded says that 2/3 of the Senate has to vote for the override:

Article I, Section 5, Clause 5
"But if he or she shall veto it, the bill or resolution shall be of no effect unless the Senate shall vote, two-thirds of the Senators concurring, to override the President's veto."

Concurrence is only provided by an Aye vote, anything else is an effective Nay vote.

Hopefully the Constitutional Convention will fix this, as well. I don't see why it should be more difficult to override a veto than it is to pass a Constitutional Amendment. "Abstain" and "Nay" should not mean the same thing, in my opinion.

Agreed.

It isn't. Constitutional amendments also need to pass the People. Veto overrides don't. Everything is exactly as it should be.

[Bono]

An abstention counts as a no? I thought we had deterimined that 2/3 of the total Senate wasn't needed, just 2/3 of those who vote either yes or no.

Thats for Amendments. The way the Constitution is worded says that 2/3 of the Senate has to vote for the override:

Article I, Section 5, Clause 5
"But if he or she shall veto it, the bill or resolution shall be of no effect unless the Senate shall vote, two-thirds of the Senators concurring, to override the President's veto."

Concurrence is only provided by an Aye vote, anything else is an effective Nay vote.

Hopefully the Constitutional Convention will fix this, as well. I don't see why it should be more difficult to override a veto than it is to pass a Constitutional Amendment. "Abstain" and "Nay" should not mean the same thing, in my opinion.

Agreed.

It isn't. Constitutional amendments also need to pass the People. Veto overrides don't. Everything is exactly as it should be.

You're justdefending it because you participated on the writing and want your legacy to live.

[minionofmidas]

No...I can't recall having anything to do with this.
Anyways this is based on US precedent.

[Gabu]

(never mind)