Puerto Rican Statehood?

[Spamage]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2012

Will Puerto Rico vote to become a state? Do you support it's choice to if it votes to?

It seems pretty overlooked nationally so far.......

[Spanish Moss]

If I had to bet money, I'd say no they won't vote to become a state - but I think it'll be close, and it very well could happen.  Whether their choice is ratified is a different story - that I'd be unsure of.

If they want to be a state, I certainly support it.  I definitely think DC should either be a state, or all but federal buildings (ex., the White House) should be absorbed by Virginia and Maryland.  I'd support any American territory that wants to be a state.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

If they want to be a state, they should be one. If not, they shouldn't.

[muon2]

If I had to bet money, I'd say no they won't vote to become a state - but I think it'll be close, and it very well could happen.  Whether their choice is ratified is a different story - that I'd be unsure of.

If they want to be a state, I certainly support it.  I definitely think DC should either be a state, or all but federal buildings (ex., the White House) should be absorbed by Virginia and Maryland.  I'd support any American territory that wants to be a state.

If PR votes to petition Congress for statehood, then I would hope that Congress would accept that petition. It would be interesting to see if that gets tied to any other petitions such as DC, though ideally it should stand on its own.

In past DC threads I have thought it makes more sense to give DC Congressional votes as a part of MD, with its own CD and a vote for MD Sen. Of course its 3 EV would vanish in such an arrangement. That could well be part of a PR deal should the referendum favor statehood.

I would resist a general territorial petition from any source. There should be a minimum population. Some territories are so small that if they were states it would really stretch the inequity in CD size. Not to mention the tremendous power of two senators for a population that could be a small fraction of a typical CD.

[dead0man]

I think they should be given an ultimatum.  Statehood or independence, your call PR.  I would hope (and assume) they would chose statehood, but I'd be cool with them going their own way as well.  This halfassed sh**t has gone on long enough.

[Spanish Moss]

If I had to bet money, I'd say no they won't vote to become a state - but I think it'll be close, and it very well could happen.  Whether their choice is ratified is a different story - that I'd be unsure of.

If they want to be a state, I certainly support it.  I definitely think DC should either be a state, or all but federal buildings (ex., the White House) should be absorbed by Virginia and Maryland.  I'd support any American territory that wants to be a state.

If PR votes to petition Congress for statehood, then I would hope that Congress would accept that petition. It would be interesting to see if that gets tied to any other petitions such as DC, though ideally it should stand on its own.

In past DC threads I have thought it makes more sense to give DC Congressional votes as a part of MD, with its own CD and a vote for MD Sen. Of course its 3 EV would vanish in such an arrangement. That could well be part of a PR deal should the referendum favor statehood.

I would resist a general territorial petition from any source. There should be a minimum population. Some territories are so small that if they were states it would really stretch the inequity in CD size. Not to mention the tremendous power of two senators for a population that could be a small fraction of a typical CD.

I would say, then, that they should have the equal right to declare themselves autonomous of the United States.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think they should be given an ultimatum.  Statehood or independence, your call PR.  I would hope (and assume) they would chose statehood, but I'd be cool with them going their own way as well.  This halfassed sh**t has gone on long enough.

Completely agree.

[Badger]

Yes, I would. But PR won't anytime too soon I expect due to the tax benefits of its current status.

Ditto for DC, though I like muon's proposal.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I support Puerto Rican statehood because it'd give us another 7 or 8 safe D electoral votes, a bunch of House seats, and two safe D Senate seats. Puerto Ricans are the strongest Democratically voting group of Hispanics, and probably the second strongest D demographic overall after blacks.

[Spamage]

I support Puerto Rican statehood because it'd give us another 7 or 8 safe D electoral votes, a bunch of House seats, and two safe D Senate seats. Puerto Ricans are the strongest Democratically voting group of Hispanics, and probably the second strongest D demographic overall after blacks.

Tell that to Luis Fortuno

It would likely tend Democratic, but statewide I think the Republicans would have a good chance.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-garcia/puerto-rico--the-next-red_b_245886.html

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I would resist a general territorial petition from any source. There should be a minimum population. Some territories are so small that if they were states it would really stretch the inequity in CD size. Not to mention the tremendous power of two senators for a population that could be a small fraction of a typical CD.

Looking at the other territories' populations:

American Samoa: 55,519
Guam: 159,358
Northern Mariana Islands: 53,883
United States Virgin Islands: 109,750

The least populous state, Wyoming, had a population of 568,158. So you're right there's a clear gap here.

[greenforest32]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Will the second question even matter if they vote yes on the first?

[Gass3268]

I support Puerto Rican statehood because it'd give us another 7 or 8 safe D electoral votes, a bunch of House seats, and two safe D Senate seats. Puerto Ricans are the strongest Democratically voting group of Hispanics, and probably the second strongest D demographic overall after blacks.

Tell that to Luis Fortuno

It would likely tend Democratic, but statewide I think the Republicans would have a good chance.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-garcia/puerto-rico--the-next-red_b_245886.html

Yup, there is a difference between Puerto Rican's on Puerto Rico and Puerto Rican's on the mainland.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

All of our territories should either become states or become independent. Other countries have incorporated former colonies into the country itself (French Guiana, for example) or simply made them independent.

In the case of all those Pacific islands with small populations, they could be admitted to the union jointly as one state.

Washington DC should not be made a state but should have voting members in the House as its population allows. It could be represented in the Senate by Maryland's senators (in whose Senate elections they would be able to vote), seeing as it used to be part of Maryland.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's received little attention because it's pretty unlikely to pass.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I could see a union of Guam and the NMI being admitted as a single State, as was the case when the Oklahoma and Indian territories were admitted as a single State.

American Samoa is all by its lonesome.  There is no good reason to join it to any other territory or state.  If push came to shove, they'd opt for a status similar to that of Palau, Micronesia, or the Marshalls.

As for the Virgin Islands, give them back to Denmark.

Puerto Rico would have 5 CDs and 7EVs based on the 2010 census and the shrinking population of the Island.  The lyrics of West Side Story still have validity after all these years.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[minionofmidas]

I could see a union of Guam and the NMI being admitted as a single State, as was the case when the Oklahoma and Indian territories were admitted as a single State.

American Samoa is all by its lonesome.  There is no good reason to join it to any other territory or state. 

There is very good reason to join it to Samoa.

Anyways, what's with the question design? Looks like they're trying to rig the vote a little in favor of statehood with that?

[Zioneer]

I could see a union of Guam and the NMI being admitted as a single State, as was the case when the Oklahoma and Indian territories were admitted as a single State.

American Samoa is all by its lonesome.  There is no good reason to join it to any other territory or state. 

There is very good reason to join it to Samoa.

Anyways, what's with the question design? Looks like they're trying to rig the vote a little in favor of statehood with that?

Regarding Samoa, I think it's been put to a vote before, and neither independent Samoa nor American Samoa want to unite with each other.

[7,052,770]

It's time to end this halfway status.  Either statehood or independence.

If PR can continue being part of America, but not a state so it doesn't have to pay taxes, maybe Mississippi could withdraw from statehood and just be a territory and keep all of the tax money, but still getting the benefits.

[opebo]

How does congressional acceptance of Statehood work?  Is it an up-or-down vote or is it 'filibusterable'? 

[minionofmidas]

Regarding Samoa, I think it's been put to a vote before.

No.

American Samoa tends to consider itself as an independent country that's okay - not that it has a choice - with the grandfathered-in presence of US troops, rather than a part of the US.

There's a very strong awareness of national oneness with the West - the American Samoa legislature actually officially protested against the larger Samoa's name change from West Samoa because they felt it made it sound like the West did not feel itself to be part of a single nation with the other Samoa. They also debate stuff like officially reserving them a veto (that the US wouldn't recognize) on Congressional votes that affect them. (Though this year they have a simpler constitutional change on the ballot: So far, if the Governor vetoed a bill, the legislature repassed it with a two-thirds majority, and the Governor revetoed it, the US Government got the last word. Now they'll introduce a simple override. Actually, they tried that in 2008, when it failed by 22 votes. Wonder why, haven't found anything on that.) Oh, and of course American Samoa is not officially an incorporated territory because Samoans at the time the US was ready to give them a self-governing legislature (shortly after the West's independence) didn't want one that officially came as a hand-down from the US Congress. (So since they're unincorporated, they got one handed down from the Secretary of the Interior instead. One wonders why that's better, symbolically. They voted on it before it took effect, though.)

There's also a strong awareness of financial dependence on the US, of course. And a growing cultural gulf, as the other Samoa looks towards (and emigrate to) Australia and New Zealand, not the US - though it's almost as economically dependent despite formal independence. And now is even in another time zone - undoing an American-trading-interests-inspired false decision of 115 years ago. I kinda wonder if American Samoa will try to follow suit on that bit.

Oh yeah. This wiki page gives amusing party descriptors for the last election... but I don't think they're accurate, and would wish to see a source. The guy here defined as "Libertarian" is defined as a Republican on his own wiki page... somewhere else they're all defined as Independents... indeed I don't believe there are political parties in American Samoa; these are probably attempts at describing the candidates' ideologies / what US parties they'd associate with. (Non-voting delegate Faleomavaega is also sometimes identified as strictly speaking an Independent caucussing with Democrats rather than as a Democrat.)

[minionofmidas]

How does congressional acceptance of Statehood work?  Is it an up-or-down vote or is it 'filibusterable'? 

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure there'd be a filibuster-proof majority in favor anyways. Puerto Rican statehood tends to be more popular in Washington than in San Juan, and during the Republican primaries three of the four candidates fell over each other trying to be most enthusiastic about it while Santorum gave more qualified support (on PR itself, it's the Right who're pro-American. It's a Latin American country, what do you expect?)

[ag]

I think they should be given an ultimatum.  Statehood or independence, your call PR.  I would hope (and assume) they would chose statehood, but I'd be cool with them going their own way as well.  This halfassed sh**t has gone on long enough.

You realize, I hope, that, short of adopting a constitutional ammendment for the explicit purpose, it would still be pretty much impossible to strip Puerto Ricans of US citizenship. Making PR independent will result in a funny situation, when nearly 100% of residents of a neighboring country would be US citizens. I guess, an act of Congress could be enough to make sure this citizenship doesn't get transfered to future generations, though.

[ag]

I support Puerto Rican statehood because it'd give us another 7 or 8 safe D electoral votes, a bunch of House seats, and two safe D Senate seats. Puerto Ricans are the strongest Democratically voting group of Hispanics, and probably the second strongest D demographic overall after blacks.

Tell that to Luis Fortuno

It would likely tend Democratic, but statewide I think the Republicans would have a good chance.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-garcia/puerto-rico--the-next-red_b_245886.html

Luis Fortuno wins elections as a member of NPP, not as a Republican. Unfortunately for him, once statehood is resolved and stops being an issue, a substantial chunk of NPP will join the PDP to form the Puerto Rican Democratic Party. NPP (and, by extension, Republicans who are NPP members) can win elections only as long as Puerto Rico stays, at least somewhat, a separate country. Once it becomes part of the US, with actual congressional and electoral votes at stake and such, the logic of the nationwide two-party system would enforce itself. Governorship won't be off limits, perhaps - in the same way Republicans do get to be governors of Massachusetts. But for federal elections being a Republican will be a losing proposition.

[minionofmidas]

Forgot to mention that there is massive to and fro migration between the Samoas - mostly to, AS not really having a higher standard of living but the much more cash based economy with the US military presence and the tuna canneries. This produces a bizarre situation because Samoa citizens can freely immigrate to AS, where they have little path to citizenship, but can not freely immigrate to the US unlike AS citizens. Their AS-born children, however, have AS citizenship (not US citizenship; there's a special category in US Law for people, such as American Samoans, who are "US Nationals" but not "US Citizens". They can easily aquire US Citizenship once they move to the mainland, however) by birth. There is also no marriage barrier whatsoever, rates of intermarriage between citizens and noncitizens being very high.