Poor whites starting to die off sooner

[opebo]

Life expectancy begins to fall precipitously for the white working class.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Their owners are happy, I'm sure.

[opebo]

Their owners are happy, I'm sure.

Yes it is fantastic news for the owners - these poors die practically the moment they cease toils!

[BigSkyBob]

As the article clearly states, the comparison is between apples and fruit.

"Researchers looking for a silver lining point out that the number of Americans without a high school diploma has dropped dramatically since 1990, both shrinking the size of that pool and also making it [the reduced pool of non-graduates] more likely that they will be disadvantaged in other ways."

As more and more effort has been spent on both encouraging and facilitating teens to graduate from school, the reduced pool of remaining non-graduates is increasing skewed towards those whom are irresponsible, and those with drug and alcohol problems. Both tend to catch up with people.

[TJ in Oregon]

Judging anecdotally from the people I went to high school with by who went to college subsequently and who did not and comparing their willingness to care of themselves and make responsible decisions at the time, even if money weren't an object at all this wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[opebo]

As the article clearly states, the comparison is between apples and fruit.

...comparing their willingness to care of themselves and make responsible decisions at the time,

That's right BigSkyBob, victims of capitalism, and as for you, TJ, those aren't 'individual decisions', those are behaviors created by society.

[TJ in Oregon]

...comparing their willingness to care of themselves and make responsible decisions at the time,

That's right Bob, victims of capitalism, and as for you, those aren't 'individual decisions', those are behaviors created by society.

Yes they are! Those are behaviors created by a culture which lacks discipline and willingness to work imparted on its youth, one which tolerates drug usage by flimsy enforcement and a lack of willingness to criticize bad personal behavior, a society that accepts students not showing up, showing up tardy, or not doing their homework by not enforcing these measures with any teeth, the litany of testing where no immediate punishment is implemented for failure, a discipline system where the school's only recourse is to call the child's parent or suspend them and neither is much of a punishment, and a society that uses the reality that people are going to do bad things as an excuse for doing them.

[BigSkyBob]

Judging anecdotally from the people I went to high school with by who went to college subsequently and who did not and comparing their willingness to care of themselves and make responsible decisions at the time, even if money weren't an object at all this wouldn't surprise me in the least.

That's how it works in large part. Self-disciplined people are both more likely to stay in school or college, and, maintain good health habits such as exercizing and watching what they eat. What is extending their lives is putting the Twinkee down, not History 101.

[Averroës Nix]

A couple of thoughts:

1. I've read elsewhere that this decline in life expectancy is largely driven by the increased prevalence of diabetes, which causes numerous early deaths among members of this group.

2. In most parts of the country, high school graduation rates are now high enough among whites that people with seriously debilitating disabilities make up a significant portion of those without college degrees. Many people with these disabilities do not live for very long.

[opebo]

Those are behaviors created by a culture which lacks discipline and willingness to work imparted on its youth, one which tolerates drug usage by flimsy enforcement and a lack of willingness to criticize bad personal behavior, a society that accepts students not showing up, showing up tardy, or not doing their homework by not enforcing these measures with any teeth, the litany of testing where no immediate punishment is implemented for failure, a discipline system where the school's only recourse is to call the child's parent or suspend them and neither is much of a punishment, and a society that uses the reality that people are going to do bad things as an excuse for doing them.

Bob is going to fix society with a sharp ruler crack across the knuckles!  How old are you Bob?

That's how it works in large part. Self-disciplined people are both more likely to stay in school or college, and, maintain good health habits such as exercizing and watching what they eat. What is extending their lives is putting the Twinkee down, not History 101.

TJ, surely you can understand that something like putting a Twinkie down or jogging is not an individual decision, but one dictated by ones position and role in the hierarchy?  This constant appeal to 'individuals' regarding epidemiological phenomena is just silly, like complaining to your lawn about the lack of rain.

[TJ in Oregon]

Those are behaviors created by a culture which lacks discipline and willingness to work imparted on its youth, one which tolerates drug usage by flimsy enforcement and a lack of willingness to criticize bad personal behavior, a society that accepts students not showing up, showing up tardy, or not doing their homework by not enforcing these measures with any teeth, the litany of testing where no immediate punishment is implemented for failure, a discipline system where the school's only recourse is to call the child's parent or suspend them and neither is much of a punishment, and a society that uses the reality that people are going to do bad things as an excuse for doing them.

Bob is going to fix society with a sharp ruler crack across the knuckles!  How old are you Bob?

That's how it works in large part. Self-disciplined people are both more likely to stay in school or college, and, maintain good health habits such as exercizing and watching what they eat. What is extending their lives is putting the Twinkee down, not History 101.

TJ, surely you can understand that something like putting a Twinkie down or jogging is not an individual decision, but one dictated by ones position and role in the hierarchy?  This constant appeal to 'individuals' regarding epidemiological phenomena is just silly, like complaining to your lawn about the lack of rain.

I guess I need to start complaining about the prevalence of Twinkies coming down from the sky in disproportionately poor areas then

I am 23; I grew up in a system much like that of today, except perhaps a bit less chaotic because it was before everything was on a computer (back then computers were only used for specific tasks and cell phones didn't have keyboards let alone the internet).

Also you switched my post and Bob's.

[opebo]

I am 23; I grew up in a system much like that of today, except perhaps a bit less chaotic because it was before everything was on a computer (back then computers were only used for specific tasks and cell phones didn't have keyboards let alone the internet).

Also you switched my post and Bob's.

Oops actually I only switched your names, got you guys confused.  To be fair, I am quite old, and grew up in an era with far less social problems - however that was almost entirely due to unionization and the 'New Deal'.   The cause of the 'chaos' you mention isn't the computer machine but precisely the economic liberalism you and your party espouse.

[Likely Voter]

The biggest argument against Obamacare. If we help these people live into old age the Medicare costs will bankrupt the country. Let them die!

[opebo]

The biggest argument against Obamacare. If we help these people live into old age the Medicare costs will bankrupt the country. Let them die!

That's nice.  Keep in mind that their life spans used to be longer during times when the country was in enormously better economic condition.  In fact what is bankrupting the country is the excessive incomes of the ruling class.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Mitt Romney: It's not my job to worry about how long poor white people live. They refuse to take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

Barack Obama: [paraphrasing James Baker] F**k the poor whites! They don't vote for us anyway!

Michelle Obama: Organic community gardens would solve all of this.

Ann Romney: Mitt doesn't disdain poor white people.

[opebo]

Mitt Romney: It's not my job to worry about how long poor white people live. They refuse to take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

Barack Obama: [paraphrasing James Baker] F**k the poor whites! They don't vote for us anyway!

Michelle Obama: Organic community gardens would solve all of this.

Ann Romney: Mitt doesn't disdain poor white people.

B.O. doesn't really gaffe, you know.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Mitt Romney: It's not my job to worry about how long poor white people live. They refuse to take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

Barack Obama: [paraphrasing James Baker] F**k the poor whites! They don't vote for us anyway!

Michelle Obama: Organic community gardens would solve all of this.

Ann Romney: Mitt doesn't disdain poor white people.

B.O. doesn't really gaffe, you know.

Neither did James Baker - that statement was allegedly made in private and not revealed until several years later. And just as old-line WASP Republicans often said horrible things about Jews in private, I know plenty of well-educated, self-described "tolerant, progressive" Democrats who will heap scorn on poor whites during private conversation.

[BigSkyBob]

As the article clearly states, the comparison is between apples and fruit.

...comparing their willingness to care of themselves and make responsible decisions at the time,

That's right BigSkyBob, victims of capitalism, and as for you, TJ, those aren't 'individual decisions', those are behaviors created by society.

That's utter bullsh**t. There are families living in cars whom insist their children graduate from High School, and there was Micheal Jackson living in his multi-million-dollar personal theme park injecting anesthetic to fall asleep.

[BigSkyBob]

Those are behaviors created by a culture which lacks discipline and willingness to work imparted on its youth, one which tolerates drug usage by flimsy enforcement and a lack of willingness to criticize bad personal behavior, a society that accepts students not showing up, showing up tardy, or not doing their homework by not enforcing these measures with any teeth, the litany of testing where no immediate punishment is implemented for failure, a discipline system where the school's only recourse is to call the child's parent or suspend them and neither is much of a punishment, and a society that uses the reality that people are going to do bad things as an excuse for doing them.

Bob is going to fix society with a sharp ruler crack across the knuckles!  How old are you Bob?

Someone else says something, and you ask me this?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Bob], surely you can understand that something like putting a Twinkie down or jogging is not an individual decision, but one dictated by ones position and role in the hierarchy?  This constant appeal to 'individuals' regarding epidemiological phenomena is just silly, like complaining to your lawn about the lack of rain.
[/quote]

Again, this is utter crap. If there were such a hierarchy, the folks at the top would order the folks at the bottom to do things like put the Twinkie down and exercise, while, perhaps, ignoring such bad habits amongst themselves.

[opebo]

That's utter bullsh**t. There are families living in cars whom insist their children graduate from High School, and there was Micheal Jackson living in his multi-million-dollar personal theme park injecting anesthetic to fall asleep.

BSB, you're only proving my point.

[TJ in Oregon]

I am 23; I grew up in a system much like that of today, except perhaps a bit less chaotic because it was before everything was on a computer (back then computers were only used for specific tasks and cell phones didn't have keyboards let alone the internet).

Also you switched my post and Bob's.

Oops actually I only switched your names, got you guys confused.  To be fair, I am quite old, and grew up in an era with far less social problems - however that was almost entirely due to unionization and the 'New Deal'.   The cause of the 'chaos' you mention isn't the computer machine but precisely the economic liberalism you and your party espouse.

I was referring very specifically to students not paying attention to a teacher because they are too busy with the distractions of laptops and cell phones, and yes that happens, I've had conversations with younger friends of mine online while they were in high school classes and supposed to be paying attention to the teacher. Economic liberalism does not stop one from being able to choose to pay attention and do their homework. Heck in the case of my old school system government spending for these various accessories has made things much worse.

I should add that I'm not advocating a drastic cut to education spending or cuts to teachers' salary or anything like that, just some degree of common sense about how a bunch of teenagers will react being given a laptop.

[Spanish Moss]

That's right BigSkyBob, victims of capitalism, and as for you, TJ, those aren't 'individual decisions', those are behaviors created by society.

One thing that gets me when people actually defend capitalism or say there are no victims, is that it's always people in the first world - especially Americans.  Ask most of South America or other parts of the third world how capitalism is faring for them... and it's atrocious.  We've had improved worker reforms in spite of it thanks to worker movements, not because of it.

As much as I hate Leninism, Cubans have some of the highest standards of living in Latin America.  There's a reason for that.

[BigSkyBob]

That's right BigSkyBob, victims of capitalism, and as for you, TJ, those aren't 'individual decisions', those are behaviors created by society.

Cubans have some of the highest standards of living in Latin America.  There's a reason for that.

1) Cuba had about the highest standard of living in Latin America before Castro;
2) The Soviet Union bombed the island with foreign aid;
3) Argentina did worse; and
4) A large number of Cubans fled to the United States resulting in the remaining population having affluent relatives abroad sending remittances, etc.

[Spanish Moss]

That's right BigSkyBob, victims of capitalism, and as for you, TJ, those aren't 'individual decisions', those are behaviors created by society.

Cubans have some of the highest standards of living in Latin America.  There's a reason for that.

1) Cuba had about the highest standard of living in Latin America before Castro;
2) The Soviet Union bombed the island with foreign aid;
3) Argentina did worse; and
4) A large number of Cubans fled to the United States resulting in the remaining population having affluent relatives abroad sending remittances, etc.

1) It was a dictatorship, fascism also works quite well in terms of improving standard of living.  I'm certainly no fascist, but that's a fact.  And fascism =/= capitalism, it's "third way."
2) The Soviet Union has been gone for over 20 years.  The standard of living is still far higher.  It's been standing on its own for a generation, and given that, even as a horrible system is clearly superior to what the poor, destitute capitalist Latin American countries have.
3) What do you mean by "Argentina did worse?"
4) I'm going to have to ask you for legitimate sources (as in, news, not sites with an agenda) on how Cuban-Americans impact the standards of living in modern Cuba - I severely highly doubt Cuban-Americans are the reasons it maintains a much higher standard of living.

[courts]

why are you arguing with one of the most well known trolls on site