Israel or Palestine? Which side has wronged more?

[Fuzzybigfoot]

A very broad question, but maybe we can get some interesting discussion out of it. 

[dead0man]

Before I answer, is Israel the people that live there or the people in charge there?  Same question for Palestine.

But even with that information, it still has to be Neither and we must point at Outside Influences as the primary cause.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What's the point of threads like this? Other than to give people the chance to claim moral superiority, I suppose.

[afleitch]

What's the point of threads like this? Other than to give people the chance to claim moral superiority, I suppose.

Which will hasten the threads demise.

[Vosem]

In terms of people, it's about equal; but in terms of leaderships, indisputably Palestine's, so I voted Palestine as having wronged more.

[Zioneer]

Neither; the medieval Crusaders, then the colonialist empires wronged the Middle East more than Israel and Palestine combined.

[So rightwing that I broke the Political Compass!]

Israel is the more powerful of the two. Therefore by definition is more "responsible", since power is defined as leverage over the ultimate outcome.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Britain.

[Simfan34]

Who has said "no" more? Who rejected entreaties and offers of land, peace, and cohabitation? That would be Palestine. This does not make Israel blameless, but Palestine has rejected solutions more than the Israelis, so...

[ingemann]

How is this even a question? I mean first half of Palestina was taken by a bunch of European colonists, when the rest was partitioned between Israel, Egypt and Jordan, later Israel conquered the Egyptian and Jordanian part and place them under a 45 year (and still counting) occupation, where Israeli colonist are moving in and stealing their land, while the Palestinians are left with a bantustan of non-connected enclaves.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I find the question absolutely irrelevant. When there is a bitter war ongoing between two people, you don't go there to count the number of atrocities committed by each. You make sure they stop killing each other. Would you ask this question about Serbs and Croats, for example ?

[Dereich]

I really don't see how people are putting the Palestinians. If we look at the past nothing up till the late 70's and early 80's can be attributed to the Palestinians, as they were nothing more then pawns in the conflict between Jordan, Egypt, and Israel. If we look at the present its clear that more Palestinians have been killed by Israelis then vice versa. And Benjamin Netanyahu is far and away a bigger cause of the conflict's continuation to Palestinian leadership. Netanyahu refused to endorse a Palestinian state until he had to for coalition reasons in '09, admitted to a hot mic that he was planning to subvert the Oslo accords, thrown in catch-22s to prevent negotiation (like refusing to negotiate with the PA until the controlled the West Bank then announcing that he wouldn't negotiate if the PA and Hamas came to an agreement), and of course refused to stop settlements even when offered sweeteners by his countries most vital ally. Nothing the Palestinians in their position of no leverage could do can match that.

[Insula Dei]

Let's pop out our calculators!

[Zanas]

Someone call another a Nazi and let's close this thread already...

[後援会]

Someone call another a Nazi and let's close this thread already...

Ah, such a venerable forum tradition.

[Free Palestine]

Israel.  The conflict is wholly the result of Zionist colonialism.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Someone call another a Nazi and let's close this thread already...

The guy in question is on the verge of being banned.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There is a point which once crossed at which arithmetic is inadequate and this conflict has long ago passed it.

[Emperor Dubya]

I really don't see how people are putting the Palestinians. If we look at the past nothing up till the late 70's and early 80's can be attributed to the Palestinians, as they were nothing more then pawns in the conflict between Jordan, Egypt, and Israel. If we look at the present its clear that more Palestinians have been killed by Israelis then vice versa. And Benjamin Netanyahu is far and away a bigger cause of the conflict's continuation to Palestinian leadership. Netanyahu refused to endorse a Palestinian state until he had to for coalition reasons in '09, admitted to a hot mic that he was planning to subvert the Oslo accords, thrown in catch-22s to prevent negotiation (like refusing to negotiate with the PA until the controlled the West Bank then announcing that he wouldn't negotiate if the PA and Hamas came to an agreement), and of course refused to stop settlements even when offered sweeteners by his countries most vital ally. Nothing the Palestinians in their position of no leverage could do can match that.

What about the fedayeen? Abu Jihad?, Black September?

I hate this idea of the 'poor defenceless Palestinians'.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

There is a point which once crossed at which arithmetic is inadequate and this conflict has long ago passed it.

Long, long ago.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Historic colonialism and the surrounding Arab states are far more responsible than either party.