Paul Ryan is not "blue-collar." Neither is Joe Biden.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/dc-blue-collar-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/56636/

This article said what I have been thinking since...basically forever.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I have never understood in what universe people like Rick Santorum (a child of healthcare professionals who has two graduate degrees) are considered blue collar or working class. If anything it grossly overstates how meritocratic our political system really is with the whole "Only in America could a truck driver/steel worker/plumber's son become president...." schpiel.

[J. J.]

Very few people are "blue collar" today.  Construction workers, assembly line workers, miners, farm workers, drivers, and in the public sector, trash collectors and road crews.

In theory, a mechanic that owns his own shop is a small business owner.  A clerk in government office is white collar.

[muon2]

Since dress codes aren't the defining trait they were decades ago blue collar has morphed. It was originally associated with hourly-wage workers as opposed to those paid a salary or self-employed. However much of that group was part of the Reagan Democrats, which also identified as white ethnics, often Catholic. It seems that the blue collar label has moved to the ethnic rather than the socioeconomic meaning associated with it 30 years ago.

[minionofmidas]

Paul Ryan and Rick Santorum are blue-collar in a world where the term is racist code for Non-Egghead White, and nowhere else. Though Rick Santorum's parents would qualify anywhere IIRC.
Joe Biden's case is somewhat more complex, but he's certainly not of bona fide working class roots either.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Very few people are "blue collar" today.  Construction workers, assembly line workers, miners, farm workers, drivers, and in the public sector, trash collectors and road crews.

Classic J. J.

hahahahaha!

[J. J.]

Very few people are "blue collar" today.  Construction workers, assembly line workers, miners, farm workers, drivers, and in the public sector, trash collectors and road crews.

Classic J. J.

hahahahaha!

You are looking at this from a UK perspective, unfortunately.

Even as far back as the early 1980's, in America, "working class" was someone who "gets their hands dirty," from working, but excluding an engineer.  Salesmen, for example, were never working class. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Very few people are "blue collar" today.  Construction workers, assembly line workers, miners, farm workers, drivers, and in the public sector, trash collectors and road crews.

Classic J. J.

hahahahaha!

You are looking at this from a UK perspective, unfortunately.

Even as far back as the early 1980's, in America, "working class" was someone who "gets their hands dirty," from working, but excluding an engineer.  Salesmen, for example, were never working class. 

Amazing.

Now... how do I put this, exactly? Could you tell me roughly how many Americans can be described as being one of the following groups you listed: construction workers, assembly line workers, miners, farm workers, drivers, trash collectors and road crews?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Oh, and salesmen were never regarded as 'working class' here either. Back in the day, when these things were clear.

[minionofmidas]

Oh, and salesmen were never regarded as 'working class' here either. Back in the day, when these things were clear.

And that despite "the lowest class of commercial travellers" (a period phrase, of course, and not a small group) being working class in virtually all respects including background... and of course, the actually lowest class of commercial travellers - not the people meant by the phrase were one step above tramps (and usually, a few years before becoming tramps unless they died sooner.)

J.J. : I think what Al meant was "talk about missing the point".

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And that despite "the lowest class of commercial travellers" (a period phrase, of course, and not a small group) being working class in virtually all respects including background... and of course, the actually lowest class of commercial travellers - not the people meant by the phrase were one step above tramps (and usually, a few years before becoming tramps unless they died sooner.)

Very true. It was a major theme in Pennies from Heaven, incidentally (including, and especially, the link with tramps). There's a particularly glorious moment when the prosecutor at Arthur Parker's trial refers to 'two commercial gentlemen' as if he were talking about dog sh!t.

[Lief 🗽]

Joe Biden's father was not a blue collar worker technically (though he did have some blue collar jobs), but it sounds like they were poor to lower middle class for most of Biden Jr.'s childhood.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/us/politics/24biden.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

[Beet]

The notion of a blue collar worker running for high political office is kind of a joke these days. Even Eisenhower's "plumber" was a union President.

[J. J.]

Oh, and salesmen were never regarded as 'working class' here either. Back in the day, when these things were clear.

And that despite "the lowest class of commercial travellers" (a period phrase, of course, and not a small group) being working class in virtually all respects including background... and of course, the actually lowest class of commercial travellers - not the people meant by the phrase were one step above tramps (and usually, a few years before becoming tramps unless they died sooner.)

J.J. : I think what Al meant was "talk about missing the point".

"Blue collar," in the US, always refers to someone that was in the industrial field, or doing some kind of manual work.  If you were male, and wore a tie to work, you were not blue collar.  There are dwindling number of blue collar workers, though one of my grandfathers was and the other hovered around the Biden level.  None of their children were.

The Bidens were lower middle to middle class, but not "blue collar."  The Ryans were middle to upper middle class.

[opebo]

"Blue collar," in the US, always refers to someone that was in the industrial field, or doing some kind of manual work.  If you were male, and wore a tie to work, you were not blue collar.  There are dwindling number of blue collar workers, though one of my grandfathers was and the other hovered around the Biden level.  None of their children were.

That's fair enough, but let us not forget that the change to which you refer should not be construed as an 'increase in white collar work' - far from it.  The descendants of those who used to be 'blue collar' are now simply unemployed, in prison, or work in restaurants or retail shops their entire lives, or in vague call-center/office jobs that don't really 'rise' to the level of 'middle class' (much like the 'commercial travelers' of yesteryear referred to earlier in this thread).

Blue-collar - for most of america, 'they should be so lucky'.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

My God, he just doesn't... a force of nature is J. J. A force of nature.

[opebo]

My God, he just doesn't...

In fairness you have, as usual, not bothered to post anything.  Why don't you tell us what you want J.J. to know.

[J. J.]

My God, he just doesn't... a force of nature is J. J. A force of nature.

You seem to be the only one that disagrees with the premise of what is "blue collar" so far.

As for background, that matters much less in America than it did in the UK.  Al, I really don't think you understand the difference.

[RogueBeaver]

Has either man said they were? Aopeal yes, partaking in parts of that culture yes. Originating from said background- no.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Paul Ryan and Rick Santorum are blue-collar in a world where the term is racist code for Non-Egghead White, and nowhere else. Though Rick Santorum's parents would qualify anywhere IIRC.
Joe Biden's case is somewhat more complex, but he's certainly not of bona fide working class roots either.

Santorum's grandparents were blue-collar. His parents weren't.

And LOL at J. J.'s posts in this thread.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Has either man said they were? Aopeal yes, partaking in parts of that culture yes. Originating from said background- no.

What "culture"? To claim there is one universal "blue-collar culture" is really....insulting, frankly.

[J. J.]

Paul Ryan and Rick Santorum are blue-collar in a world where the term is racist code for Non-Egghead White, and nowhere else. Though Rick Santorum's parents would qualify anywhere IIRC.
Joe Biden's case is somewhat more complex, but he's certainly not of bona fide working class roots either.

Santorum's grandparents were blue-collar. His parents weren't.

And LOL at J. J.'s posts in this thread.

Well, here is the actual definition of "blue collar" :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-collar_worker

Why don't you give yours? 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You seem to be the only one that disagrees with the premise of what is "blue collar" so far.

As for background, that matters much less in America than it did in the UK.  Al, I really don't think you understand the difference.

Do you even read other people's posts? I mean, do you ever give them more than an extremely cursory glance?

Anyways, I asked a question earlier and it was left unanswered for some reason. So I'll put it to you again: Could you tell me roughly how many Americans can be described as being one of the following groups you listed: construction workers, assembly line workers, miners, farm workers, drivers, trash collectors and road crews? No games, please, and even less sophistry. Just a straight answer to a straight question.

There is, and I shall warn you of this in advance, a follow up question already prepared. One that directly references your posts in this thread.

[J. J.]

You seem to be the only one that disagrees with the premise of what is "blue collar" so far.

As for background, that matters much less in America than it did in the UK.  Al, I really don't think you understand the difference.

Do you even read other people's posts? I mean, do you ever give them more than an extremely cursory glance?

Anyways, I asked a question earlier and it was left unanswered for some reason. So I'll put it to you again: Could you tell me roughly how many Americans can be described as being one of the following groups you listed: construction workers, assembly line workers, miners, farm workers, drivers, trash collectors and road crews? No games, please, and even less sophistry. Just a straight answer to a straight question.

There is, and I shall warn you of this in advance, a follow up question already prepared. One that directly references your posts in this thread.

Looking at the descriptions, about 10-11% of the work force is "blue collar."  http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

Now, before I answer your follow, what is your definition of "blue collar."

[J. J.]

Has either man said they were? Aopeal yes, partaking in parts of that culture yes. Originating from said background- no.

What "culture"? To claim there is one universal "blue-collar culture" is really....insulting, frankly.

LOL.  Rosanne Arnold and John Goodman made a fortune off of it.  As did Norman Lear and Carrol O'Conner!  So did Billy Joel with "Allentown."

Whole cities have the reputation for being blue collar!  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21581863/ns/travel-destination_travel/t/philadelphias-tough-image-hard-shake/#.UEwmElHLkis

As someone who did grow up in an area that was proudly blue collar, until the steel market collapsed, I can only say that you are very far out of touch.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Has either man said they were? Aopeal yes, partaking in parts of that culture yes. Originating from said background- no.

What "culture"? To claim there is one universal "blue-collar culture" is really....insulting, frankly.

LOL.  Rosanne Arnold and John Goodman made a fortune off of it.  As did Norman Lear and Carrol O'Conner!  So did Billy Joel with "Allentown."

Whole cities have the reputation for being blue collar!  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21581863/ns/travel-destination_travel/t/philadelphias-tough-image-hard-shake/#.UEwmElHLkis

As someone who did grow up in an area that was proudly blue collar, until the steel market collapsed, I can only say that you are very far out of touch.

He didn't say that there are no blue-collar cultures, he said that there's no Blue-Collar Culture.