GER-Infratest dimap/ARD: Germany's 140 EV solidly in the Obama column

[Keystone Phil]

Only 86%? Who didn't get the memo in Germany? Let the panicky handwringing intensify! Next time, they might not even include Mitt's name in the poll to make up for this national embarrassment.

[Keystone Phil]

Only 86%? Who didn't get the memo in Germany? Let the panicky handwringing intensify! Next time, they might not even include Mitt's name in the poll to make up for this national embarrassment.

I doubt Italy's numbers would be that much different, but who cares about facts?

Uh, what? Facts? Do me a favor, Franzl, and point out where I have ever said Italy's numbers would be any different. In fact, they'll be stronger for Obama but for a different (and almost as silly) reason: personality worship. I've stated this in the past, too, but who cares about facts?

Funny enough, I was talking to one of my left wing Italian friends about it last night. He didn't offer much of an argument against it.

[Keystone Phil]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

[Keystone Phil]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

If that's what you want to believe, Phil. Although the correct answer is George W. Bush. Memories aren't that short over here.

Ugh, I know! All the good that man did for Africa/AIDS research...he one up-ed everyone! And the Germans and Europeans in general, they will never forget it.

[Keystone Phil]

Obama is certainly very popular, but you're pretty ignorant if you don't believe any Democrat would be at relatively simliar levels in 2012. Especially against Mitt Romney.

I said any Democrat would comfortably lead but the Obama praise is based, in part in certain countries, on handwringing. And I know you won't admit it but deep down...

[Keystone Phil]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

Yay, sources!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-american-relations-after-the-poll-next-president-will-demand-more-from-europe-a-533449.html

Obama would have only led Clinton by 6 in the Democratic primary. I don't exactly call that an overwhelming personality cult.

Well, first of all, your math is off. 43-39 = 4, not 6. Secondly, I wasn't calling it a personality cult; I said it was handwringing. Lastly, one of the commentators states that he, like "most Germans," is swinging between Obama and Hillary so this poll doesn't prove much. 

[Keystone Phil]

I think the point is that Germans are worried about a Romney win... Which would be a perfectly good reason to vote for Obama.

...no.

And you guys don't know what handwringing means? Come on. Knock it off.

You know, maybe I'm just dumb, but I honestly don't understand what Keystone Phil is trying to say here. I even looked up the term "handwringing" in a dictionary, but it didn't help. Can someone help me comprehend what he's getting at??

He's getting at supposed "guilt" as the reason for supporting the black man. Phil is convinced this dominates Germans' everyday lives in every way.

Maybe it doesn't dominate but you know as well as I do that it has its place.

[Keystone Phil]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

[Keystone Phil]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

...and that has nothing to do with my point that you, as a German, have as much authority saying Germans aren't hand wringers as racists do when they say they aren't racist.

[Keystone Phil]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

...and that has nothing to do with my point that you, as a German, have as much authority saying Germans aren't hand wringers as racists do when they say they aren't racist.

Or an ignorant not accepting he's ignorant, in your case.

You know it all, Franzl. And, hey, you're a centrist! You're right down the middle! You get it.

[Keystone Phil]

Do you really want to accuse someone else of "knowing it all", Phil?

"Combative," sure. I view it more as "vocally principled." But a know it all? No.