GER-Infratest dimap/ARD: Germany's 140 EV solidly in the Obama column

[Emperor Dubya]

What saddens me is that a wonderful country like Germany votes like DC

What would someone like you find to like about Germany?

What is this supposed to mean?

[opebo]

What saddens me is that a wonderful country like Germany votes like DC

What would someone like you find to like about Germany?

What is this supposed to mean?

It is so different from what your party idealizes, no?

[LastVoter]

Foreigners tend to give very whacky answers on political polls regarding other foreign countries. It's a very different experience, foreign politics and domestic politics. GOPers never do well in them, but Democrats tend to dominate expat communities, so I'm not particularly surprised. At least from what I've experienced, European immigrants in the USA seem to actually be somewhat more right-wing than the average American (or about where the average White American is).

Of course, I've seen this phenomenon not just in America. Americans in East Asian countries have a tendency of backing batsh**t insane parties out of lack of information/lack of understanding of the country.

Russian immigrants that still speak Russian(post 1992) used to be 70% Democratic(before Obama).

[old timey villain]

These European polls just affirm the belief among right wingers that Obama wants to turn us into a  European Socialist Democracy.

They should comfort people in the fact that we have a leader who is very popular with our closest allies. Demonizing the European lifestyle may work on the campaign trail, but if a President Romney were ever to declare war, who are the first nations he would go to for assistance?

[Zanas]

Romney just comes off as a fake greedy guy to people out of the United States while they see Obama as "Normal".

Not quite.

I know many Romney, and Gary Johnson supporters for that matter, in the UK.

Yeah, but you see, he said "out of the United States", and in that context that implied "in Europe", so...

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I think part of the reason Europeans tend to favor the Democrats over the Republicans is the Republicans' constant demonizing of "failed European socialism" or whatever.

[Middle-aged Europe]

What saddens me is that a wonderful country like Germany votes like DC

It saddens me that as good a country as the USA will give Romney/Ryan at least 45% of the votes

It saddens me that German right-wingers think that Obama espouses similar views to themselves.

Well, Obama has similar views to the German Conservatives, really.
There is a big decalage between European and American politics.
Someone running with Merkel policies in USA would be attacked for being a liberal.

Heck, Angela Merkel is even sometimes attacked by German conservatives for being "too liberal". In America, she would be considered a pinko communist traitor.

[Tidus]

I think part of the reason Europeans tend to favor the Democrats over the Republicans is the Republicans' constant demonizing of "failed European socialism" or whatever.

The problem here is that european or german politics has nothing to do with socialism - but that´s not the way the Republicans want to see it... and if even german conservatives are scared of the Republican party and their so-called "beliefs" that tells the whole story...

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The Republican party is the party of American Nationalism, so how is this a surprise....?

[Franzl]

I think part of the reason Europeans tend to favor the Democrats over the Republicans is the Republicans' constant demonizing of "failed European socialism" or whatever.

That's one factor for sure. It's also just the plain inability to understand how any sane person could reject basic social welfare principles, such as guaranteed healthcare as a basic human right. The fact that this is even being debated in the United States is an extremely foreign concept.

[Supersonic]

Romney just comes off as a fake greedy guy to people out of the United States while they see Obama as "Normal".

Not quite.

I know many Romney, and Gary Johnson supporters for that matter, in the UK.

Yeah, but you see, he said "out of the United States", and in that context that implied "in Europe", so...

Pesky mainland Europeans.

[後援会]

A lot of foreigners, if pressed, tend to name Obama as a more preferred leader because Democrats do more overseas outreach and that the way you pay attention to politics is very different if you're from another country. And it's fairly common that people project their political spectrums on America, which may lead to misleading conclusions (like the idea that both parties are right-leaning).

That being said, I've never held a face-to-face conversation with a non-American about politics without convincing them that Obama was terrible.

[Tidus]

There is no kind of 'idea' that both american parties are rightleaning compared to other democracies in Europe, Japan or Australia.

It´s just the truth.

For instance we can take the conservative party of Germany (Angela Merkels CDU) . Their main political views are the following:

1. Minimum wage and social security:

Employees that don´t get enough money in their job should be guaranteed a minimum wage - not in all kinds of jobs, but in some of them where employees don´t earn enough money it makes sense to introduce a minimum wage. The CDU also belives in the social market economy. This is in fact a CDU-model from the Adenauer- and Erhard-era and it should balance the forces of the capitalistic free market and the needs of the weaker parts in society.

2. Climate change:

Climate change is for real and because of that we have to invest in new wind and solar technologies to lower Co₂ Emission. Also we need to get out of the atomic-era. (And to make this clear: I remember very well when Angela Merkel spoke in the US house of representatives just a few years ago... she talked about civil rights and climate change and her (conservative!!!) views about this problems - and the need to to something to solve these problems, like lowering the emission - but the only fraction applauding were the DEMOCATS, while the Republicans just sat there and did nothing.)

3. Gay rights:

Germany nowadays allows legalized partnerships including some (but not all) tax benefits. There is still some rumour but again even the CDU supports legalized partnerships. And a lot of members of the CDU also approve the idea of marriage equality (meaning to allow gays to marry and to get all kinds of tax benefits). Just a few weeks ago 13  delegates and CDU members of the parliament started a proposal to improve marriage equality. And I can only point this out: This is coming from the conservative party of Germany. I could never imagine a group of prominent Republicans or republican members of the House or the Senate drafting gay rights. And this was not only coming from the CDU base it also was approved by the german minister for familiy affairs and women Christina Schroeder (also a CDU member) who said this: "Two homosexual men or women who want to share their whole life together are role models for the society and they are living conservative values. These conservative values include truth, loyality and helping each other in all siuations." Impossible to get such a statement from a Republican in the USA... they don´t even acknowledge that men or women in permanent gay relationships do live christian values.

4. Universal health care:

This problem is not really dicussed in Germany right now, because there is a big consensus amog all parties (including the right wing CDU) that universal health care is a human right. The CDU explains this by christian values and their moral views, bacause anyone ill or sick should get free access to healtcare... it´s the kind of conservative value exemplified in the bible.


And there are a lot of other political views I can think of where the CDU is closer to the Democrats than the Republicans... those subjects include the view on international politics (for example the role of the United nations), the view on the whole national security issue and so on...

So, all in all for me as a German conservative and a proud member of the cristian democratic alliance (CDU) the Democrats are the conservative party of America while the Republicnas are just the joke party of America.

Period.

And I know for sure, I´m not the only conservative in Germany who thinks like this... I have to correct myself... I am VERY sure...

[Keystone Phil]

Only 86%? Who didn't get the memo in Germany? Let the panicky handwringing intensify! Next time, they might not even include Mitt's name in the poll to make up for this national embarrassment.

[Franzl]

Only 86%? Who didn't get the memo in Germany? Let the panicky handwringing intensify! Next time, they might not even include Mitt's name in the poll to make up for this national embarrassment.

I doubt Italy's numbers would be that much different, but who cares about facts?

[Keystone Phil]

Only 86%? Who didn't get the memo in Germany? Let the panicky handwringing intensify! Next time, they might not even include Mitt's name in the poll to make up for this national embarrassment.

I doubt Italy's numbers would be that much different, but who cares about facts?

Uh, what? Facts? Do me a favor, Franzl, and point out where I have ever said Italy's numbers would be any different. In fact, they'll be stronger for Obama but for a different (and almost as silly) reason: personality worship. I've stated this in the past, too, but who cares about facts?

Funny enough, I was talking to one of my left wing Italian friends about it last night. He didn't offer much of an argument against it.

[Franzl]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

[Keystone Phil]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

[Franzl]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

If that's what you want to believe, Phil. Although the correct answer is George W. Bush. Memories aren't that short over here.

[Keystone Phil]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

If that's what you want to believe, Phil. Although the correct answer is George W. Bush. Memories aren't that short over here.

Ugh, I know! All the good that man did for Africa/AIDS research...he one up-ed everyone! And the Germans and Europeans in general, they will never forget it.

[Franzl]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

If that's what you want to believe, Phil. Although the correct answer is George W. Bush. Memories aren't that short over here.

Ugh, I know! All the good that man did for Africa/AIDS research...he one up-ed everyone! And the Germans and Europeans in general, they will never forget it.

You can find something good in most people, no matter how terrible their overall record was.

Regardless, the point is George W. Bush was and is extremely unpopular in Europe, and there's widespread disbelief here that anyone could be stupid enough to give the party power just 4 years after Obama threw them out.

Obama is certainly very popular, but you're pretty ignorant if you don't believe any Democrat would be at relatively simliar levels in 2012. Especially against Mitt Romney.

[Tidus]

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No, I don´t think this has to do anything with Obamas personality.

I suppose an "Average Republican" against an "Average Democrat" poll would lead to similar numbers in Germany. It´s just the so-called "conservative" party of the Republicans that sucks... no matter whom they nominate... most people here think what te Republican party wants doesn´t have to do anything with conservatism but with insanity.

And I pointed out the reasons for this in an earlier comment here. You can read it in my comment above.

[Keystone Phil]

Obama is certainly very popular, but you're pretty ignorant if you don't believe any Democrat would be at relatively simliar levels in 2012. Especially against Mitt Romney.

I said any Democrat would comfortably lead but the Obama praise is based, in part in certain countries, on handwringing. And I know you won't admit it but deep down...

[Franzl]

Obama is certainly very popular, but you're pretty ignorant if you don't believe any Democrat would be at relatively simliar levels in 2012. Especially against Mitt Romney.

I said any Democrat would comfortably lead but the Obama praise is based, in part in certain countries, on handwringing. And I know you won't admit it but deep down...

I think you vastly overestimate the role that plays in ordinary people here. What politicians say can sometimes be a different story, but whatever, I'm not going to convince you of all people.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

Yay, sources!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-american-relations-after-the-poll-next-president-will-demand-more-from-europe-a-533449.html

Obama would have only led Clinton by 4 in the Democratic primary. I don't exactly call that an overwhelming personality cult.