Which would you rather have at school?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Apparentely Phil thinks it's a major problem that I freely wear clothing with swearing on it and that my friend has one of those hammer and sickle shirts. Hence he loves school uniforms so much.

It's true that I go to a college which is obviously different and far more accepting than high school, but if you had two high schools, one of which had few clothing restrictions and allowed the first, the other with uniforms, which would you prefer?

[Richard]

Apparentely Phil thinks it's a major problem that I freely wear clothing with swearing on it and that my friend has one of those hammer and sickle shirts. Hence he loves school uniforms so much.

You just raped every logic principle in existance.  I do not follow it.

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For elementary school and high school, uniforms are a must.  It teaches discipline.

For colleges and universities, it is free for all.

[David S]

BRTD I support your right to wear whatever you want. However, if you wear a hammer and sickle T-shirt you should not be surprised if somebody decides to beat the hell out of you.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Most people here would have no problem with it, and once when he was up in Minneapolis someone commented to him "awesome shirt!". As long as it's left wing, it's tolerated in Minneapolis, if cities had flags Minneapolis' should have a hammer and sickle on it.

[Cashcow]

I agree with David.

[George W. Bush]

 I Would rather be told that to wear.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I should mention that I actually do have a friend who was born in the Soviet Union (in what is now Ukraine), although his parents left when he was only 2.

Now he is also extremely liberal and still has Kerry/Edwards buttons all over his backpack. He's never met my other friend though or seen his hammer and sickle shirt, and I'm honestly not sure what he would think of it.

[Schmitz in 1972]

I believe in free speech, thus Hammer and Sickle shirts should be allowed in schools. What I do not like though, is how schools in Minnesota will allow clothing with Communist insignia to be worn, but not clothing with Confederate insignia.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

well those are high schools, although I have yet to hear of a high school here banning the Hammer and Sickle so I guess that's true.

[Gabu]

I wouldn't really care either way (I wear very unflashy, non-statement-making clothing), but I personally have nothing against letting kids wear whatever they want.  As long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's experience at school, I think kids should be able to wear what they'd like to wear.

[Richard]

Well, if you're going to let kids wear what they want, then be sure to uphold the right to:

- wear communist signs
- wear swastikas
- wear KKK signs and slogans
- wear confederate flags and signs
- wear crosses and other religious signs
- wear shirts with Bible quotes

And so on.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well, if you're going to let kids wear what they want, then be sure to uphold the right to:

- wear communist signs
- wear swastikas
- wear KKK signs and slogans
- wear confederate flags and signs
- wear crosses and other religious signs
- wear shirts with Bible quotes

And so on.

my views on each:

- wear communist signs - acceptable
- wear swastikas - not acceptable
- wear KKK signs and slogans - not acceptable
- wear confederate flags and signs - not acceptable
- wear crosses and other religious signs - acceptable
- wear shirts with Bible quotes - depends on the quote, but generally acceptable

[Peter]

my views on each:

- wear communist signs - acceptable
- wear swastikas - not acceptable
- wear KKK signs and slogans - not acceptable
- wear confederate flags and signs - not acceptable
- wear crosses and other religious signs - acceptable
- wear shirts with Bible quotes - depends on the quote, but generally acceptable

This is some of the more stunted hypocricy I've seen.

[Gabu]

Well, if you're going to let kids wear what they want, then be sure to uphold the right to:

- wear communist signs
- wear swastikas
- wear KKK signs and slogans
- wear confederate flags and signs
- wear crosses and other religious signs
- wear shirts with Bible quotes

And so on.

Some of those are borderline.  It depends what comes with them.  If a kid just wears a swastika, I could sort of see that.  I'd find it absolutely disgusting, but that's not a reason in itself to make it illegal.  However, if a kid wears a swastika to class along with a shirt that reads, "I HATE nS", then we have a problem.

The line I draw, as I said above, is whether or not the shirt violates other students' rights to feel secure and unthreatened while at school.  If the shirt directly threatens or bashes a minority group or something, then it's crossed that line.  Neither a shirt with the hammer and sickle nor a shirt with only a swastika does that, however (though the latter comes pretty close).

[Peter]

Under Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, a school may only restrict free expression where conduct would "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school".

How this applies to all of the listed examples would vary with the exact circumstances of the school and the exact nature of the conduct.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

my views on each:

- wear communist signs - acceptable
- wear swastikas - not acceptable
- wear KKK signs and slogans - not acceptable
- wear confederate flags and signs - not acceptable
- wear crosses and other religious signs - acceptable
- wear shirts with Bible quotes - depends on the quote, but generally acceptable

This is some of the more stunted hypocricy I've seen.

why?

I'm pretty consistent actually, I'm opposing racist symbols. The KKK symbols, confederate flags and swastikas are racist. My opposition to the swastika symbol is not what the Nazis or Hitler did, but the fact that it represents a racist ideology. One can be a Nazi and not agree with everything Hitler did, in fact the majority of Nazis did not support genocide of Jews, just a limiting of their rights. However, such a person would still be racist. Whereareas one can be a communist who does not agree with the Stalinist terrors or other atrocities carried out by communists, therefore that person simply follows an economic ideology which you may not agree with, but is not offensive.

Christian symbols are not discriminatory, and like I said, it depends on the Bible verse, I would have no problem with shirts that quote John 3:16 or excerpts from the Sermon on the Mount but something saying homosexuality is an abomination is innapropiate.

[Keystone Phil]

Oh stop complaining. I have to wear a tie during the winter months (during the summer months we wear polo shirts) and I don't care. I could imagine you showing up to school in tears because you have to wear one. Give me a break.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I hate dressing up. I have never worn a tie in my life.

[Keystone Phil]

I hate dressing up. I have never worn a tie in my life.

And I'm sure you'd be in tears if you had to wear one. Grow up.

[12th Doctor]

I went to a school where we worn a loose uniform (dress pants of our choosing, school botton-down shirt and tie).  I don't feel like any less of an individual, and it did take away from a number of distractions.  It just made things easier.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

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Wouldn't that be extremely offensive to people of Eastern European descent? They're large Polish (and often Hungarian as well) communities in most industrial areas.

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Define "swastika". Are we talking the Hindu relgious symbol or the Nazi pseudo-religious symbol?

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Fair enough

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What's a "confederate flag" defined as? Besides isn't it just a tiny bit hypocrital to say that someone having a (non battle flag) CSA flag on their T-shirt is bad, but there's nowt wrong with having "I love Pol Pot" on their T-shirt?

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Is "I love the Taliban" O.K? What about a Hindu Swastika?

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No Comment

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Oh stop complaining. I have to wear a tie during the winter months (during the summer months we wear polo shirts) and I don't care.

They make you go to school in summer?

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Wouldn't that be extremely offensive to people of Eastern European descent?

I had ancestors who were from Germany (a country that was partially "communist" for years), and I'm not in the least bit offended by it.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

My point is that someone claimed people whose ancestors came from "communist" countries would be offended by a person wearing a shirt with a hammer and sickle on it, and I was debunking their statement.

[Alcon]

The problem is that people would begin wearing the Hindu swastika, and no one would realize that is what it is.

Frankly, some things should just be banned because they would become gang symbols in a flash.