slavery reparations

[David S]

Slavery ended nearly 140 years ago. No one alive today was ever a slave and no one alive today was ever a slave owner. There are no living victims and no living perpetrators.  Also much of the white population of the U.S. are descendents of people who immigrated here after slavery was ended. Are they responsible for slavery?

Our Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm thinks reparations should be paid, although in the form of affirmative action. That means she thinks white Michiganians should pay reparations to black Michiganians. So when did slavery ever exist in Michigan? In this case there are not only no victims and no perpetrators, there is also no offense, ever!

Finally if someone is half black and half white do they have to pay the reparations to themselves?

[TX_1824]

I demand reparations from Egypt. I'm a Jew. The Egyptians enslaved my people. As soon as I get a check from the Egyptian government for the money that "I" deserve for the slavery enforced upon my ancestors, then I'll support reparations for descendants of slaves here in America. I also want money from the Italian government for what the Romans did in Judea. Give me...give me...give me. I deserve it!!! Why we're at it, the Germans owe me money as well. My father was in Dachau and I deserve money for his suffering. I want free money!

[Lunar]

Slavery ended nearly 140 years ago. No one alive today was ever a slave and no one alive today was ever a slave owner. There are no living victims and no living perpetrators.  Also much of the white population of the U.S. are descendents of people who immigrated here after slavery was ended. Are they responsible for slavery?

Our Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm thinks reparations should be paid, although in the form of affirmative action. That means she thinks white Michiganians should pay reparations to black Michiganians. So when did slavery ever exist in Michigan? In this case there are not only no victims and no perpetrators, there is also no offense, ever!

Finally if someone is half black and half white do they have to pay the reparations to themselves?

I'm against affirmative action and reparations.

However, to play the devil's advocate, the logical argument in favor of affirmative action is undoing the structured bias against the decendents of slaves.  Face it, Blacks are poorer than Whites because of systemic racism in the past with much of the traces of it still around (affirmative action says let's get rid of those traces).

My argument is that everyone gets dealt different hands.  It's not Hispanics fault that many of the ancestors came from a poorer background, just like immigrants and many poor whites, but should the system help you at the expense of everyone else?  Seems like that argument is infinitely regressive to pure socialism.

[Lunar]

I demand reparations from Egypt. I'm a Jew. The Egyptians enslaved my people. As soon as I get a check from the Egyptian government for the money that "I" deserve for the slavery enforced upon my ancestors, then I'll support reparations for descendants of slaves here in America. I also want money from the Italian government for what the Romans did in Judea. Give me...give me...give me. I deserve it!!! Why we're at it, the Germans owe me money as well. My father was in Dachau and I deserve money for his suffering. I want free money!

To be fair, your father would be eligible for money.  I'm not sure what the German policy is for ancestors, shrug.   Your other examples (Italy and Egypt) don't make sense since the governments that caused those problems originally aren't in existance anymore.

Again, affirmative action isn't an apology.  Again, I disagree with it, but that's not what it is.  Jews, while victims of extreme racism in the past, aren't really suffering under systemic racism in terms of opportunities and whatnot.

Man, you guys are forcing me to defend something I find absurd.

[Bono]

Finally if someone is half black and half white do they have to pay the reparations to themselves?

LOL.

And yea, those Michigan slaveholders were world renown for their brutality.

[opebo]

preposterous idea, whos going to be able to trace everyone to slaves, besides many wouldnt have much good to do with the money

Why not?  Because they're black?

[Schmitz in 1972]

I'm against them. We've already given them political correctnes - I think that's reparation enough.

Here's something that you never hear anyone say (for fear of being blasted): Slavery may have done today's african-americans a favor. By bringing slaves over from Africa, we (unknowingly) allowed their descendents to live in the leader of the free world instead of a poverty and AIDS stricken African republic.

[David S]

So far 8 people have answered yes. To you I would point out that nothing stops you from donating your own money to such a cause if you support it. If we use Opebo's mean figure for the cost of 40 acres ( about $300,000) it would mean that each white person owes about $45,000 to the effort. Have you coughed up your share?

[TeePee4Prez]

Against.  My ancestors suffered as well, but in a different way.  Why should one group have preference over another?

[angus]

Every living slave in the US should be paid reparations by every living slaveholder, prior to 1861 if living in the Seceding states and 1865 in the states that didn't.

$0 would by paid by 0 ex-slaveholders to 0 ex-slaves.

I agree with the excellant point made by Daniel.

actually, the point was made earlier by JJ and seconded by Richius, if I understand their posts correctly.  obviously, it's a problem.  Opebo talks about the dire economic straits of the decendants of slaves, while ignore the even more dire economic straits of the average resident of Burkina Faso, Niger, Cote d'ivorie, and the like.  the portuguese and dutch vessels that brought them here certainly affected the economic conditions of their descendents, and affected them in a way so as to increase their GDP.  Clearly that's a crass statement, made deliberately to show the foolishness of that argument.

The real problem with slavery is not an economic one, but a much deeper indignity, and anyone who is willing to sell out his/her indignity for dollars deserves neither the dollars nor the right to remain indignant.

Of course, there are also the logistics problems as well.  Would the massachusetts preacher's slave, Tichiba, who was the first one killed in the Salem Witch Trials not have ancestors who would need to be compensated?  Or is the arbitrary fact that MA became the first US state to outlaw slavery in 1781 make it somehow above reparations (as that seems to be the arbitrary consensus among the few who do support reparations, as evidenced by numerous references only to those states still permitting slavery between about 1818 and 1865).  Would the fact that most white americans do not have ancestors on this continent before about 1900 make them inelibigle for offerings, or should second-generation and third generation white americans pony up as well?  And to those socialists among you who voted yes, can you really square your ideology with the fact that you'd have poor white trash with no pot to piss in making payment to rich folks like clarence thomas?  (who, incidentally, has made it clear what a bad idea he thinks reparations are)

in case it wasn't clear, I voted NO.

[senatortombstone]

For those who don't know, JPMorgan is a bank conglomerate and one of the predecessors of one of its banks in Louisiana owned slaves between 1830 and I believe 1860-somethine.  The bank that owned the slaves went defunct during the great depression and that bank was bought by another and JPMorgan bought the bank that bought the bank that dealt in slavery.  There are now some black activists who believe that everything that JPM has done, all of the wealth it has accumulated is based on slavery and blaxplotation.  JPMorgan has offered to set aside $5,000,000 of scholarship money for blacks in Louisiana.  Civil-rights groups were outraged and said that doesn't even begin to cover the damage that JPMorgan has done.

I shall post links so that you, if interested can disseminate the facts.

To me though it seems a bit ridiculous that a company faces legal prosecution for something that was done nearly 200 years ago, and in many cases, the profits made were lost and those business were bought out and now people are trying to sue the companies that bought out defunct companies.  Slavery was legal and these companies did not violate the law of their time, so how can they be retroactively sued for something that a predecessor of predecessor of predecessor?  Does the chain of accountability ever end?

I hope that when these cases go to court that the judges will throw them out as being frivolous.
http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=JPMorgan+slavery&ei=UTF-8&fl=0&x=wrt

[David S]

J.P. Morgan is taking a spineless position. They should tell the reparations crowd to get lost.