NE2: Roscoe Conkling Equity Before the Law Act [Passed]

[Simfan34]

The Roscoe Conkling Equity Before the Law Act

1 - All fines issued to individuals in accordance with the laws of the Northeast Region will be indexed to personal income.

2 - Any person earning the median income for the region or less will pay all fines in full. Individuals earning more will pay an increased fine based on the following formula: [(personal income/median personal income) X standard fine].

Sponsor: Rep. Jones
Debate period: 36 hours

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

First off, we already passed this, but Gov. Napoleon shot it down, man! I'm just reintroducing this so that we can re-pass it and have Gov. Nix sign it this time.

Second (and this has already been said in the original thread), if the fine is $10,000, that's a hell of a lot for your average working stiff, but if you're Mitt Romney, you can pay that a thousand times over and still have a few million left. That's just not fair. This bill is an attempt to bring fairness into the Northeasts' fine system, and I think we can bridge our differences and agree that the rich should pay for their crimes.

Thank you for your time.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Fire up the torches!

[Lincoln Republican]

You are all familiar with my arguments against this bill, as I stated them clearly in the previous debate on this bill.  So I will not go into a repetition this time around.

I add, however, that such legislation is unconstitutional, and can therefore not be passed by this Assembly without being in violation of the constitution, and if a bill is passed in violation of the constitution, such bill is not valid.

The new Northeast constitution, Article V:  Bill of Rights, section 2.

 2. Equality All persons of the Northeast are born equal, and shall be treated as so under the law, no matter their age, gender, race or ethnicity, religion, disability, economic status or sexual orientation. No government institution may explicitly favor one group over another.

[Lincoln Republican]

Governor, the fact of the matter is that all residents of the Northeast are guaranteed equal treatment under the law, regardless, among other things, of economic status.

Issuing a fine to someone who earns $20,000.00 a year that is different from a fine issued to someone who earns $100,000.00 a year clearly violates Article V, Section 2 of the Northeast constitution, because the fines are not equal, or to put it another way, it violates the guaranteed right of all Northeast citizens to equal treatment under the law.

I do not know how much more clear this article and section of the constitution can be.  It is spelled out there in black and white.       

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

The fines are the same regardless of economic status to ensure equality under the law. Thus I agree with Winfield's assessment and with Napoleon. This bill needs to stay dead.

[CatoMinor]

I am curious, if the NE CJO decides this is unconstitutional for the reasons Winfield gave, would that in effect kill any progressive income tax this region has? (Not sure if you have one)

[Lincoln Republican]

I am curious, if the NE CJO decides this is unconstitutional for the reasons Winfield gave, would that in effect kill any progressive income tax this region has? (Not sure if you have one)

Of course not.  Taxation is a completely separate matter altogether from fines issued for breaking the law.

People are not taxed because they break the law.

The two are not related.

[Napoleon]

The Northeast has never had progressive taxation as far as I know. It would be interesting to see if it did pass the constitutional test.

[Pyro]

I am in favor of this legislation, as was I last time.

[Insula Dei]

The CJO's opinion:

While I can see the concern over the status of this bill as a possible infringement on the Equal Treatment Provision in our Region's constitution, I must follow the reasoning put forward by, for example, Governor Nix. It is not clear to me how indexed fines would bring the equal treatment of citizen's into doubt, as they would merely guarantee that every citizen should pay a more or less equal percentage of his income when fined. In fact, one could argue that the bill as it presently stands is a form of discrimination against lower income North-Easterners, since the key used to determine the size of the payment due would still have people earning substantially less than the median income paying a substantially higher percentage of their income as a fine than those who earn about the median income or more. This line of reasoning, however, has not been brought before me and seems to me perhaps too radical a way of conceiving the intention of the constitution.

On the grounds mentioned above I cannot but be of the opinion that the legislature wouldn't transgress the bounds of the constitutional in accepting these measures into law.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Where's Mondale?

[Simfan34]

Debate time has been extended to 72 hours.

Debate time has been truncated to 24 hours.

[mondale84]

I believe the bill in constitutional and, if anything, it makes treatment under the law more equal because the fine inflicts a proportional amount of pain on the transgressor. If the aim of a fine is to deter future bad behavior, than the incentives/disincentives should cause an equal amount of pain to the transgressor. In this case - since the fine is monetary - the individual paying the fine will bear an amount of pain equal to that of his richer or poorer fellow citizen.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

We're voting now? Aye.

If we're not voting, I move to end debate and vote.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I withdraw my previous motion and instead move to end debate at 2:00 AM.

[Simfan34]

is that so? Then voting shall end then.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

is that so? Then voting shall end then.

You mean debating, right?

[Lincoln Republican]

Clearly, neither the Governor nor the CJO have any idea whatsoever of what equality before the law is.

But whatever, go ahead, violate the constitution, and pass your little piece of misguided legislation so you can take your petty revenge on the fact that Governor Napoleon rightfully vetoed this abomination earlier.  

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Clearly, neither the Governor nor the CJO have any idea whatsoever of what equality before the law is.

But whatever, go ahead, violate the constitution, and pass your little piece of misguided legislation so you can take your petty revenge on the fact that Governor Napoleon rightfully vetoed this abomination earlier.  

True equality is not getting away with speeding because you can afford it.

[Lincoln Republican]

Clearly, neither the Governor nor the CJO have any idea whatsoever of what equality before the law is.

But whatever, go ahead, violate the constitution, and pass your little piece of misguided legislation so you can take your petty revenge on the fact that Governor Napoleon rightfully vetoed this abomination earlier.  

True equality is not getting away with speeding because you can afford it.

True equality is paying the same penalty for committing the same offence.

[Simfan34]

DEBATE TIME HAS EXPIRED.

Voting will last as mandated or until all have voted.

[Simfan34]

Nay

[mondale84]

Aye

[Pyro]

Aye