Italy 2013: The official thread

[Antonio the Sixth]

Renzi gets the Murdoch endorsement, not that he should be publicizing it.

http://www.formiche.net/2013/03/09/renzi-murdoch-endorsement/

I'm sure he endorsed Bersani, too, for obvious reasons.

Eliminating competition?

[RogueBeaver]

When do the formal talks start? Next week? Seen a bunch of different dates.

[Antonio the Sixth]

When do the formal talks start? Next week? Seen a bunch of different dates.

March 15 is the day the Parliament convenes. They'll first have to elect their presiding officers, and then government formation talks should begin.

[RogueBeaver]

Renzi hits leadership for being idealess, Fassina accuses him of being disloyal to the party and basically immature. Long past time for the old hacks to step aside, unless they want Grillo to win outright soon enough.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/10/us-italy-vote-left-idUSBRE9290DR20130310

[Antonio the Sixth]

Renzi hits leadership for being idealess, Fassina accuses him of being disloyal to the party and basically immature. Long past time for the old hacks to step aside, unless they want Grillo to win outright soon enough.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/10/us-italy-vote-left-idUSBRE9290DR20130310

Why is he saying that now? He should wait for Bersani to try his alliance with the grillists, and after this (sadly) fails, call for new elections.

[RogueBeaver]

He knows it will fail. Leadership knows too, else they wouldn't be hitting him. Fassina would be his biggest primary competition if Bersani didn't run.  Seems to me that both men are prepositioning for primary purposes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

He knows it will fail. Leadership knows too, else they wouldn't be hitting him. Fassina would be his biggest primary competition if Bersani didn't run.  Seems to me that both men are prepositioning for primary purposes.

Yeah, but it would make sense for him to maintain façade unity and show his loyalty to Bersani, so that he wouldn't be accused later of being a traitor.

[RogueBeaver]

Grillo said he'd quit politics if his senators gave confidence to a political government. C'est fini.

[RogueBeaver]

Renzi wants a snap election after a new electoral law is devised.

http://www.diarioprogresista.es/renzi-urge-a-bersani-a-que-convoque-elecciones-en-italia-25584.htm

[Keystone Phil]

Grillo said he'd quit politics if his senators gave confidence to a political government. C'est fini.

Wow. So tempting to jump on the bandwagon now...

[RogueBeaver]

Renzi talked again about the need for abolition of public financing. Hear hear. Also wants the parties to post their expenses online. OpenSecrets, Italian Edition.

http://video.repubblica.it/edizione/firenze/renzi-nessun-dossier-la-trasparenza-nelle-spese-dei-partiti/122022/120509

[Antonio the Sixth]

Abolition of public financing is a stupid idea. Cut them, massively, but don't get rid of them outright.

[RogueBeaver]

We'll have phased our federal one out by 2015, no real backlash. It forces the parties to go grassroots or out of business. If done over a few years to give everyone time for adjustment... but I suspect we'll agree to disagree here.

[Benj]

We'll have phased our federal one out by 2015, no real backlash. It forces the parties to go grassroots or out of business. If done over a few years to give everyone time for adjustment... but I suspect we'll agree to disagree here.

Fundraising is hardly a grassroots operation unless your individual donation caps are extremely low. It just makes parties more dependent on the wealthy donors who will donate the full permitted amount. Regardless of your political views, surely you can't believe that the wealthy don't have enough representation in any country's political system.

[Antonio the Sixth]

We'll have phased our federal one out by 2015, no real backlash. It forces the parties to go grassroots or out of business. If done over a few years to give everyone time for adjustment... but I suspect we'll agree to disagree here.

Grassroots financing is rarely sufficient for parties to remain afloat financially... In France, when public financing was introduced in the 1990s it was as a way to fight against corruption, because parties sought through illegal means the money they lacked. Everyone did that, left and right.

Obviously, Italy has the reverse problem right now, meaning that parties get more (waaaaaaaaay more) than what they actually need so that the excess goes to fill the pockets of a few bigwigs. But let's not throw the baby with bathwater.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There's a certain sort of mindless populist 'solution' that people who should know better are quite happy to support without giving said 'solution' so much as a second glance.

[RogueBeaver]

The PD and M5S negotiators sit down tomorrow, but no one seems overly confident. M5S leaders repeating that anyone who votes confidence gets booted from caucus.

http://www.campanianotizie.com/politica/italia/54821-pd-eletti-con-bersani-ma-cresce-fronte-scettici.html

M5S still not Renzi fans.

http://www.gonews.it/articolo_185550_Bonafede-M5S-Il-ritorno-di-Renzi-aumenta-il-caos.html

[Keystone Phil]

May seem like a strange question but has there been any polling since the election? I want to see if M5S really benefits from this.

[Hash]

We'll have phased our federal one out by 2015, no real backlash. It forces the parties to go grassroots or out of business. If done over a few years to give everyone time for adjustment... but I suspect we'll agree to disagree here.

No real backlash perhaps, but it was also a horrible idea.

[RogueBeaver]

Phil: Only a Renzi trial matchup last week that showed him boosting PD to a 35-28-26 lead with Berlusconi in 3rd. Also PPM with 28% to 14% for Bersani, 13% Grillo, 10% Berlusconi.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/08/us-italy-vote-renzi-idUSBRE92706V20130308

[Hash]

No, there have been a bunch of other polls:

SWG, March 8: Left 28.1%, M5S 27%, Right 26.2%, Centre 10.4%

Ispo, March 7: Left 29.8%, M5S 28.7%, Right 27.4%, Centre 9.8%

Piepoli, March 6: Left 29.5%, Right 29.5%, M5S 26.5%, Centre 9%

Ipsos, March 5: Left 29.6%, M5S 29.4%, Right 29.2%, Centre 10%

Lorien, March 3: Left 31.9%, Right 31%, M5S 28.5%, Centre 5.6%

[RogueBeaver]

So no statistically significant change, which doesn't surprise me.

[Niemeyerite]

I wanted to support Renzi, but I can't. He's such a populist. Bersani, again, gets my support. Ugh.

[RogueBeaver]

Fight populism with populism. He knows how to operate in this environment, they don't. Compared to bribing people with their own tax dollars, perhaps paid from the leader's own pocket, in one case and 20 hour workweeks in the other, this is about a 3 on the Populimeter.

Speaking of which, SWG Tweeted a poll saying 82% of voters support an end to public financing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Fight populism with populism. He knows how to operate in this environment, they don't. Compared to bribing people with their own tax dollars, perhaps paid from the leader's own pocket, in one case and 20 hour workweeks in the other, this is about a 3 on the Populimeter.

Indeed. Renzi is far from being my ideal politician, but he's the best we can get out of Italy.