Feminism- valuable success or grotesque failure?

[opebo]

I know women get paid a lot less, the reason being that they do a lot less work.

As for them getting paid less for the same work, post your source.

Of course, it's no one's business what an employer pays someone except for the employer and the employee.

Thirty years ago very few women worked - at least married women.  It is the fact that men's wages have been falling or stagnant since the early 1970's that has made female employment an absolute necessity for most families.

[dazzleman]

If it is inspired by racism or sexism, that is untrue.

And that women make less for men for the same work is pretty widely known.

It is true that women are paid less than men overall, but not for the same work.  That is another piece of feminist propaganda.

When men and women are doing the same job, they are paid about the same.  But women and men generally don't do the same jobs, and the jobs women do tend to demand fewer hours and less work than the jobs men do, and they therefore make less.  Most families choose this type of arrangement so that women can be more available to their families.

The high-paying jobs are VERY demanding, and are mostly done by men, or childless women.  These types of jobs are generally not compatible with raising a family.  Men have traditionally done these types of jobs.  Of course, the feminists want women to get these jobs, minus the demands that are placed on men.  This is a common thread through the feminist movement - give women all the benefits that men have traditionally had, without any of the disadvantages that came along with benefits.

[Platypus]

When the feminist movement started, it was a very good thing.  Women were drastically looked down upon when they tried to do anything that was a "male" thing to do for about the first two-thirds of the 19th Century.

My grandmother and mother and living proof of this.  When my grandmother graduated from high school in the '30s, she wanted to be a doctor.  When she went to talk to an advisor about the issue, the advisor sternly informed her that she actually wanted to be a nurse.  That was the end of that.  When my mother was going to university even in the '60s, none of the professors took her seriously because they all figured that she was just there to find a man, get pregnant, and become a housewife.  Clearly, radical reform of this situation was needed, and the feminist movement was there to do just that.

Today, women are very, very close to achieving total equality in the workplace.  There still are some lingering stigmas that make women feel like they shouldn't do "male" things, but if a female does decide to do a "male" thing, nobody will argue.  Most would even encourage her.

There's just one problem: the feminist movement hasn't died down.

Not satisfied with equality with men, now the feminist movement (or at least a large part of it) seems dead-set on making men inferior to women.  For example, sexist jokes against men are perceived as an expression of a woman's liberty, while sexist jokes against women are considered disgusting, misogynistic, etc.  Women are allowed to playfully hit men - that's "cute" - but men aren't allowed to playfully hit women - that's "assault and battery".  Men are looked down upon both when they're the giver and when they're the receiver of abuse, the former because their actions are rightly perceived as horrible and the latter because it's supposedly a reflection of a man's inadequate masculinity to be pushed around by a female.  Females, on the other hand, get off scot-free in both cases.

I'm all for female equality to men, and it's because of that, not in spite of it, that I can't stand the modern feminist movement.  They've gone past wanting simply equality for females, and in doing so, they've gone too far.

If a feminist does want simply equality, good for her.  I agree completely and will cheer her on.  From what I've seen, however, she wouldn't represent the majority of feminists.

I agree with that. A lot of the more radical feminists are also disgusting hypocrites... let's take Greer;

1. She has on several occasions posed for (hard core) pornographic magazines.
2. She has defended female "circumsision" (read: Genital Mutilation)
3. She is currently an "inmate" (or whatever them call 'em) on a sh**tty reality T.V show ("Celebrity Big Brother").#
4. She's a sexist female chauvanist
5. She doesn't know how to draw but likes to prat around as a critic

Please keep her, we don't mind a bit[/] of a 'brain' drain.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Please keep her, we don't mind a bit of a 'brain' drain.

Let's give her to... er... South Africa... instead ;-)

[Platypus]

no, because females don't has equal amounts of aids in South Africa, so she wouldn't go.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

no, because females don't has equal amounts of aids in South Africa, so she wouldn't go.

Hmm... Afghanistan :-P

[opebo]

If it is inspired by racism or sexism, that is untrue.

And that women make less for men for the same work is pretty widely known.

It is true that women are paid less than men overall, but not for the same work.  That is another piece of feminist propaganda.

When men and women are doing the same job, they are paid about the same.  But women and men generally don't do the same jobs, and the jobs women do tend to demand fewer hours and less work than the jobs men do, and they therefore make less.  Most families choose this type of arrangement so that women can be more available to their families.

The high-paying jobs are VERY demanding, and are mostly done by men, or childless women.  These types of jobs are generally not compatible with raising a family.  Men have traditionally done these types of jobs.  Of course, the feminists want women to get these jobs, minus the demands that are placed on men.  This is a common thread through the feminist movement - give women all the benefits that men have traditionally had, without any of the disadvantages that came along with benefits.

What a load of garbage. 

Everyone in the workforce today is faced with ridiculous demands, male or female, whether they have one of the very few high paying jobs or one of the much more common working-poor jobs.  People today work well over 40 hours per week, and get only two weeks off per year - a horrible prospect regardless of your gender.  Many work two jobs because wages are too low to support life.  It is just unrealistic to think that anyone is taking an 'easy' job these days, out of willingness to make less.  I don't think any such jobs exist in the US anymore. 

[dazzleman]

If it is inspired by racism or sexism, that is untrue.

And that women make less for men for the same work is pretty widely known.

It is true that women are paid less than men overall, but not for the same work.  That is another piece of feminist propaganda.

When men and women are doing the same job, they are paid about the same.  But women and men generally don't do the same jobs, and the jobs women do tend to demand fewer hours and less work than the jobs men do, and they therefore make less.  Most families choose this type of arrangement so that women can be more available to their families.

The high-paying jobs are VERY demanding, and are mostly done by men, or childless women.  These types of jobs are generally not compatible with raising a family.  Men have traditionally done these types of jobs.  Of course, the feminists want women to get these jobs, minus the demands that are placed on men.  This is a common thread through the feminist movement - give women all the benefits that men have traditionally had, without any of the disadvantages that came along with benefits.

What a load of garbage. 

Everyone in the workforce today is faced with ridiculous demands, male or female, and whether they have one of the very few high paying jobs or one of the much more common working-poor jobs.  People today work well over 40 hours per week, and get only two weeks off per year - a horrible prospect regardless of your gender.  Many work two jobs because wages are too low to support life.  It is just unrealistic to think that anyone is taking an 'easy' job these days, out of willingness to make less.  I don't think any such jobs exist in the US anymore. 

I guess you would know, being an expatriate who lives on a trust fund, and has never worked a day in his life....

[nclib]

But women and men generally don't do the same jobs, and the jobs women do tend to demand fewer hours and less work than the jobs men do, and they therefore make less.  Most families choose this type of arrangement so that women can be more available to their families.

The high-paying jobs are VERY demanding, and are mostly done by men, or childless women.  These types of jobs are generally not compatible with raising a family.  Men have traditionally done these types of jobs.

Perhaps if men and women would equitably share childrearing and housework, women could work demanding jobs and raise a family well.

[dazzleman]

But women and men generally don't do the same jobs, and the jobs women do tend to demand fewer hours and less work than the jobs men do, and they therefore make less.  Most families choose this type of arrangement so that women can be more available to their families.

The high-paying jobs are VERY demanding, and are mostly done by men, or childless women.  These types of jobs are generally not compatible with raising a family.  Men have traditionally done these types of jobs.

Perhaps if men and women would equitably share childrearing and housework, women could work demanding jobs and raise a family well.

Yes, that's the feminist line.  What difference does it make?  Why should outsiders be telling families how to live?

Every family should make their own arrangement.  Some women prefer to stay home with their kids.  Others don't want demanding jobs.  Some are perfectly happy to let their husbands earn the money, and willingly take on the childrearing and housework.

Or it could be the other way around.  The woman could work and the man stay home.  This is more unusual, but it does happen.

I really hate the way feminist witches have to make every person decision a political matter.  There are plenty of families where the husbands to more than the wives, so I get very sick of hearing this implication that men are somehow getting a free ride on everything, while women are doing all the work and being deprived of opportunities.  In some families it's true, but in others the reverse is true.

[??????????]

Dazzle,

Interestingly enough my wife pretty much detests all this feminist stuff and calls it "bullsh*t". Her mother is pretty much against it as well. My wife would rather stay home and let me be the bread winner and I dont have any problem with that either as that is what I would prefer as well.

[opebo]

I guess you would know, being an expatriate who lives on a trust fund, and has never worked a day in his life....

I think my position allows me a certain perspective on the problem, yes.

[Hitchabrut]

Option Number Four

[7,052,770]

option 2--obviously it's good that women have equal rights, but it's taken a bit too far nowadays.