Justice 40 years later?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4154039.stm

[Jake]

Finally. Thank God

[dazzleman]

It's terrible that it took this long.  It was a similar story with the Birmingham church bombing.  The perpetrators of that bombing were only tried and convicted in the last several years.  The same with the killer of Medgar Evers.

Positive change takes such a long time.

[A18]

Put this piece of trash to death.

[Alcon]

This would be the Philadelphia, Mississippi murders, correct?

Good. Get a fair trial, let him have his representation, and then let him live in a jail cell until the solace drives him to wish he wants to die every second of his miserable life. And then, when he dies, he will burn in the hell of the God he pretends to represent the will of.

Filth.

[Gabu]

That's, er, kind of belated, but it certainly will be good for the relatives to finally have closure on this issue.

[Lunar]

I have no problem with first degree murders being tried decades after they happen.

I would have a problem with the government jumping out and yelling "gotcha!" at me for shoplifting 40 years ago or something (after reviewing old video tapes from a store, I don't know).

[Richard]

Before you condemn the man, lets first find out if he is guilty...

[Nym90]

I have no problem with first degree murders being tried decades after they happen.

I would have a problem with the government jumping out and yelling "gotcha!" at me for shoplifting 40 years ago or something (after reviewing old video tapes from a store, I don't know).

Fortunately, there is a statute of limitations on shoplifting, but not on murder.

[dazzleman]

Before you condemn the man, lets first find out if he is guilty...

I think this is a case in which law enforcement knew for a long time who did this, but was unable to proceed largely for poltical reasons.  This was also the case with the Medgar Evers murder as well as the Birmingham church bombing.

In the 1960s, the voter rolls in Mississippi, from which jurors are drawn, consisted largely of racist whites, who simply would not convict a white person for a crime committed against blacks or "n***er lovers," whatever the facts of the case (sounds a lot like the O.J. jury in reverse).

In addition, there was great difficulty in getting witness and others involved to cooperate.  Still, it just amazes that in all these terrible cases, the families of the victims had to wait so long to get some measure of justice.  In life, ultimately, the only thing we have is time, and it is not infinite.  Time is also the only thing that can be taken from us as punishment for our crimes.  Because these perpetrators are so old, they effectively cheated the punishment they deserve, because they'll now never be able to serve the time they deserve, and they were allowed to spend the best years of their lives in freedom while the families of their victims suffered.

Not to change the topic, but this is one reason I despise the current behavior of the Democrats and civil rights groups, who cheapen the sacrifices made during the 1960s by charging "voter suppression" every time they get an election result they don't like, and suggesting that conditions today are as they were then.  If that is really the case (it is not), then all the sacrifices made by people like the Philadelphia, Mississippi civil rights workers were in vain.  And that is just not the case.

[zachman]

Here's a meaningful Bob Dylan song that I'm pretty sure was based on these murders:

The Lonesome death of Hattie Carroll

William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll
With a cane that he twirled around his diamond ring finger
At a Baltimore hotel society gath'rin'.
And the cops were called in and his weapon took from him
As they rode him in custody down to the station
And booked William Zanzinger for first-degree murder.
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Take the rag away from your face.
Now ain't the time for your tears.

William Zanzinger, who at twenty-four years
Owns a tobacco farm of six hundred acres
With rich wealthy parents who provide and protect him
And high office relations in the politics of Maryland,
Reacted to his deed with a shrug of his shoulders
And swear words and sneering, and his tongue it was snarling,
In a matter of minutes on bail was out walking.
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Take the rag away from your face.
Now ain't the time for your tears.

Hattie Carroll was a maid of the kitchen.
She was fifty-one years old and gave birth to ten children
Who carried the dishes and took out the garbage
And never sat once at the head of the table
And didn't even talk to the people at the table
Who just cleaned up all the food from the table
And emptied the ashtrays on a whole other level,
Got killed by a blow, lay slain by a cane
That sailed through the air and came down through the room,
Doomed and determined to destroy all the gentle.
And she never done nothing to William Zanzinger.
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Take the rag away from your face.
Now ain't the time for your tears.

In the courtroom of honor, the judge pounded his gavel
To show that all's equal and that the courts are on the level
And that the strings in the books ain't pulled and persuaded
And that even the nobles get properly handled
Once that the cops have chased after and caught 'em
And that the ladder of law has no top and no bottom,
Stared at the person who killed for no reason
Who just happened to be feelin' that way without warnin'.
And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished,
And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance,
William Zanzinger with a six-month sentence.
Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now's the time for your tears.

[Smash255]

Before you condemn the man, lets first find out if he is guilty...

I think this is a case in which law enforcement knew for a long time who did this, but was unable to proceed largely for poltical reasons.  This was also the case with the Medgar Evers murder as well as the Birmingham church bombing.

In the 1960s, the voter rolls in Mississippi, from which jurors are drawn, consisted largely of racist whites, who simply would not convict a white person for a crime committed against blacks or "n***er lovers," whatever the facts of the case (sounds a lot like the O.J. jury in reverse).

In addition, there was great difficulty in getting witness and others involved to cooperate.  Still, it just amazes that in all these terrible cases, the families of the victims had to wait so long to get some measure of justice.  In life, ultimately, the only thing we have is time, and it is not infinite.  Time is also the only thing that can be taken from us as punishment for our crimes.  Because these perpetrators are so old, they effectively cheated the punishment they deserve, because they'll now never be able to serve the time they deserve, and they were allowed to spend the best years of their lives in freedom while the families of their victims suffered.

Not to change the topic, but this is one reason I despise the current behavior of the Democrats and civil rights groups, who cheapen the sacrifices made during the 1960s by charging "voter suppression" every time they get an election result they don't like, and suggesting that conditions today are as they were then.  If that is really the case (it is not), then all the sacrifices made by people like the Philadelphia, Mississippi civil rights workers were in vain.  And that is just not the case.

Well if we didn't have things like the 2000 voter purge issue, in which many people who had names similar or birthdates simnilar to felons happened to be removed off voter rolls, and where people who had either no conviction dates, future conviction dates or convicted as such horrible crimes as falling asleep on a bus stop in the 1950's.  the company (DBT) even later admitted to a 15% error rate which happened to be mostly African Americans "mistakenly" removed off the voter rolls.  Stuff like that is why its still an issue.  Thew Civil Rights situation in this country is quite a bit better than 40 years ago, but lets not fool ourselves here and think racism & discrimination is a thing of the past.

[dazzleman]

Well if we didn't have things like the 2000 voter purge issue, in which many people who had names similar or birthdates simnilar to felons happened to be removed off voter rolls, and where people who had either no conviction dates, future conviction dates or convicted as such horrible crimes as falling asleep on a bus stop in the 1950's.  the company (DBT) even later admitted to a 15% error rate which happened to be mostly African Americans "mistakenly" removed off the voter rolls.  Stuff like that is why its still an issue.  Thew Civil Rights situation in this country is quite a bit better than 40 years ago, but lets not fool ourselves here and think racism & discrimination is a thing of the past.

Sorry, but I don't believe there was any attempt to suppress the black vote either in 2000 or 2004.  Mistakes maybe, but no concerted effort to do so.  People like Jesse Jackson are pushing this rubbish for self-serving reasons and the Democrats are buying into it because they don't want to face up to their real problems, plus they want to scare black voters into voting for them without considering any other alternatives.

I don't think racism and discrimination have gone away, but organized attempts to deny the vote based on color have.

[Josh/Devilman88]

The KKK is still very active.. just not in public...

[dazzleman]

The KKK is still very active.. just not in public...

The Democrats aren't accusing the KKK of suppressing the black vote.  They're accusing Republican elected officials, like Jeb Bush and Ken Blackwell (who happens to be black himself).

There are many voting screwups at the local level.  The people in charge at the local level in black areas are elected by black people themselves.  It makes no sense to think that there could be this grand successful conspiracy at the top level to suppress the black vote.  It's malignant nonsense to suggest it.

[PBrunsel]

The KKK is still very active.. just not in public...

North Carolina actually has one of the large KKK memberships of all our states now.

[dazzleman]

The KKK is still very active.. just not in public...

North Carolina actually has one of the large KKK memberships of all our states now.

I have heard that Connecticut has more KKK members per capita than any state.  It's hard to believe, but it could be true.

[J. J.]

I thought it was PA.  That might have been militias?

[PBrunsel]

The KKK is still very active.. just not in public...

North Carolina actually has one of the large KKK memberships of all our states now.

I have heard that Connecticut has more KKK members per capita than any state.  It's hard to believe, but it could be true.

Guess I can't beleive everything I read. :-)

[7,052,770]

Yeah, it's probably not a southern state with the most KKK people.  IIRC it was Indiana and Ohio with the highest membership in the Klan's heyday.

[??????????]

Indiana has the highest KKK membership and actually the national HQ of the KKK (unofficial of course) is in Indiana. Interestingly enough a few years back New York had the highest number of hate crimes per capita.

[AuH2O]

No, the KKK is not a significant organization. It fails every possible qualification for being notable.

Meanwhile, Stalinists in the government are still witch-hunting Southern whites to appease blacks still mad about a few old crimes. But the federal government could care less about all the thousands of people that will be victimized by crime this week, the hundreds of thousands that will be victims this year.

No, those people don't matter. Rather, tax dollars should be spent on making up the perpetrator of the decades-passed assassination of a few leftists. Oh, and to do this, the Constitution was further compromised-- now there is double jeopardy.

[danwxman]

No, the KKK is not a significant organization. It fails every possible qualification for being notable.

Meanwhile, Stalinists in the government are still witch-hunting Southern whites to appease blacks still mad about a few old crimes.

Of course.

It always makes me smile to see a racist white southerner being hauled off to jail.

[J. J.]

No, the KKK is not a significant organization. It fails every possible qualification for being notable.

Meanwhile, Stalinists in the government are still witch-hunting Southern whites to appease blacks still mad about a few old crimes. But the federal government could care less about all the thousands of people that will be victimized by crime this week, the hundreds of thousands that will be victims this year.

No, those people don't matter. Rather, tax dollars should be spent on making up the perpetrator of the decades-passed assassination of a few leftists. Oh, and to do this, the Constitution was further compromised-- now there is double jeopardy.

This is not even close to double jeopardy.  He was tried for conspiracy, according to the article, as a federal crime.  He's being charged with murder, a different and a state crime.  I have no problem with attempting to try someone for murder, even 4 decades later.

[Smash255]

The KKK is still very active.. just not in public...

The Democrats aren't accusing the KKK of suppressing the black vote.  They're accusing Republican elected officials, like Jeb Bush and Ken Blackwell (who happens to be black himself).

There are many voting screwups at the local level.  The people in charge at the local level in black areas are elected by black people themselves.  It makes no sense to think that there could be this grand successful conspiracy at the top level to suppress the black vote.  It's malignant nonsense to suggest it.

Something is fishy when the year your brother is running for President you decide to enfoce the purge laws.  Something is fishy when you hire an out of state company with ties to one of the Presidential candiates family going back to the 1970's  (DBT was a major contributer to Bush SR as a Congressman in Houston during the 70's).  Something is fishy when after the fact the company admits a 15% error rate.  Something is fishy when the purge list had such glaring mistakes such as blank & future conviction dates.  Somethig is fishy when the vast majority of the "mistakes" happen to be among African Americans.  Something is fishy when those in charge of the whole voter purge issue (Jeb Bush & Katherine Harris) were notified months in advance about the problems concerning the purge lists, but did nothing about it.  The person whose job it was to make sure the lists were right (Harris) didn't even check.

Now I'm not sure if the initial intent was to stop African Americans from voting.  However, what I do think is when they found out (a good 5-6 months before the election) that their were numerous misrictakes which happened to be mostly to African Americans that they decided to do nothing about it & let the mistakes stay there for no other reason than the majority of those mistakes were among African Americans who happened to be the Democratics largest voting bloc