Bradley Manning set to make first court appearance

[Free Palestine]

...for charges of Crimes Against the State.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16211977

Bring on the Two Minute Hate, nationalistfriends.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Human rights activists from around the world ought to be commending the restraint of our MPs who haven't laid a hand on this traitor. The fact that he has not been harmed by our soldiers- which any soldier would be tempted to do to this thing- shows the greatness and discipline of our military

[Rooney]

Human rights activists from around the world ought to be commending the restraint of our MPs who haven't laid a hand on this traitor. The fact that he has not been harmed by our soldiers- which any soldier would be tempted to do to this thing- shows the greatness and discipline of our military

I do not think you quite understand the purpose of a human rights activist. They do not usually applaud the fact that you SHOULD cause harm to another person but you do not. They commend those nations that eradicate the idea that you should ever cause harm to a person who is in prison. That is why they are not commending the USA which has treated Manning in a fairly disturbing way.

[Franzl]

Human rights activists from around the world ought to be commending the restraint of our MPs who haven't laid a hand on this traitor. The fact that he has not been harmed by our soldiers- which any soldier would be tempted to do to this thing- shows the greatness and discipline of our military

Obviously the holy military can do no wrong.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Let's talk about this situation... a soldier of a country spills the largest amount of classified documents in HISTORY. It is unknown if htis caused any deaths but revealed secrets and hurt the country- we can all agree.  Let's talk about how that soldier is treated

If the soldier is from most nations on Earth, let's just say Iran, they are likely tortured to death without a trial. Here in the USA, the soldier is put in solitary confinement. He can go outside his cell for an hour per day, he get sto watch TV, gets to read a God damn KANT book...an that was at its WORST! Now he is at Leavenworth which is Club Med by comparison

If any of you can say that Bradley Manning is being treated the same or worse then he would if he were a citizen of most other nations on Earth, you are crazy.  He is a traitor to his country and yet he is being treated with respect and without cruelty

[Oakvale]

What's the argument here? The government should pat him on the back and let him go in thanks for his reckless leaking of classified material?

[opebo]

Let's talk about this situation... a soldier of a country spills the largest amount of classified documents in HISTORY. It is unknown if htis caused any deaths but revealed secrets and hurt the country- we can all agree... He is a traitor to his country and yet he is being treated with respect and without cruelty

How would you have felt about those German soldiers who opposed Hitler, clarence?

[Free Palestine]

I love how people bark vitriol about him being a "traitor" and crap.  It's funny how the state has brainwashed so many people to act as if releasing some documents that the state possesses is tantamount to raping a baby on live national television.

[Oakvale]

What on earth is the rationale for freeing this guy?

[Username MechaRFK]

What on earth is the rationale for freeing this guy?

He showed the world of the crimes there countries have committed but the MSM won't tell them, because of politicians telling the people that if you try to show negative information of the government your a traitor and disgrace to your own country.

[Link]

What on earth is the rationale for freeing this guy?

There is no rationale.  The guy is a soldier and he broke the very clear rules in a completely reckless fashion.  This was not a careful thoughtful release of the Pentagon Papers by an experienced analyst.  This was an indiscriminate data dump by a troubled young man.  If you let one Bradley Manning off the hook what are you going to do with next guy?  And the guy after that?  And the guy after that?

It's the military.  You either tow the party line or face the consequences.  No army in the history of the world has ever allowed a bunch of free thinkers in it's ranks.  You think if you pulled a stunt like this in some liberal Western European paradise you wouldn't go to jail?

You commit treason.  You go to jail.  Now I will say he may not necessarily have received the best treatment in jail.  That should be looked into.  But let the guy go?!  That's not a serious suggestion.

[Link]

Manning released videotape evidence of civilians being killed for no military reason by the army of a foreign country that had unjustly invaded their country based on lies. By any humane moral standard he deserves to be celebrated for this and not imprisoned.

I'll admit that the mass release of diplomatic cables is dicier, since diplomatic confidentiality serves a real function.

Did you learn anything from the example you cited?  I didn't.  Years before Manning's data dump I think we all knew the Iraq war was a phony war.  I must have been all of 10 years old by the time I realised reporters could be killed in friendly fire incidences.  This guy did incredible harm to US diplomatic relationships and divulged the identities of civilians working with us in Iraq and Afghanistan for basically no payout.

Seriously.  A video of an Apache helicopter pilot mistakenly hitting the wrong target?!  You do realize all that's needed to apply to the Apache helicopter flight program in the US Army is a high school diploma.  All the jobs I've had since I was 20 required more than that.  Is anyone here really shocked that a high school graduate that was handed one of the most lethal multimillion dollar killing machines on the planet made one mistake?  If you learned that from the Manning data dump you live a charmed life.

Release of the Pentagon Papers... reasonable, well thought out, patriotic.  Manning's indiscriminate data dump... the work of a troubled mind.  That doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for him.  It sounds like the kid had a tough life.  But an example needs to be made.  The vast majority of what he dumped was in no way criminal.  Why didn't he just release the stuff he thought was criminal?  If he did we would be having a very different conversation.

[patrick1]

Link, while I generally agree with you about Manning, I think you are wrong to tacitly denigrate the pilot's intelligence.  While you do not need a college degree to be an Apache piolt, many do have one and you need to be selected to become a warrant officer to move into that mos.  It is pretty competitive and they are well trained.  I'm sure many Harvard grads would not have the necessary skills.  And really how much can an education really steer you away from screwing up.  The best and the brightest have nearly sunk this country on several occasions.  The bankers and hedge funders who nearly sunk the economy all had sterling credentials.

Anyway, Manning took an oath and betrayed secret information that could have gotten Americans or their allies killed. He should go to prison for some time.

[Link]

patrick1,

I was just being my usual over the top self.  I know the training that Apache pilots receive probably puts the bulk of the college courses most liberal arts freshmen and sophomores take to shame.  I didn't really mean to denigrate those guys and girls.

My point is it is a very complex war zone with a lot of moving parts.  To think you could constantly bomb and machine gun a country for the better part of a decade and not expect a reporter anywhere to get a single hair tussled is a bit unrealistic.  And if one watches the video they didn't just go in guns blazing.  They observed and communicated for a loonnnnggg time before they were forced to make a decision.  On the whole it was a fairly unremarkable video.  You look at the way 90+% of other countries conduct their wars and even with a fraction of the killing power we have the innocent lives that they snuff out are exponentially more.

Obviously what happened was an awful mistake and an investigation needs to be conducted.  But to watch that video and then decide to dump every single diplomatic cable you can get your hands on is insane.  What in the world do our communications with Andorra have to do with any of this?

[patrick1]

Cool man, for my part I frequently try to read between the lines too much in others posts.

IIRC, wasn't a large part of Manning illegally disclosing this was that he was just a really unstable and depressed malcontent? I think people might be projecting the whistleblower hero onto him. 

[opebo]

It's the military.  You either tow the party line or face the consequences. 

Its 'toe' the line.

[JohnnyLongtorso]

Human rights activists from around the world ought to be commending the restraint of our MPs who haven't laid a hand on this traitor. The fact that he has not been harmed by our soldiers- which any soldier would be tempted to do to this thing- shows the greatness and discipline of our military

Yeah, because psychological torture is so much better.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Let's talk about this situation... a soldier of a country spills the largest amount of classified documents in HISTORY. It is unknown if htis caused any deaths but revealed secrets and hurt the country- we can all agree... He is a traitor to his country and yet he is being treated with respect and without cruelty

How would you have felt about those German soldiers who opposed Hitler, clarence?

A helluva lot better towards them since I am an American and Nazi Germany was our enemy

But no one trusts ANY traitor to their country... we listen to em, we pay em, we send em on their way, but we sure as hell don't trust em if they give up secrets of their country

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Human rights activists from around the world ought to be commending the restraint of our MPs who haven't laid a hand on this traitor. The fact that he has not been harmed by our soldiers- which any soldier would be tempted to do to this thing- shows the greatness and discipline of our military

Yeah, because psychological torture is so much better.

THAT is torture? Standing with his johnson out in the brig? When I was in the service, you'd get a sack tied tight over your head if you snored too loud... couldn't breathe good but couldn't reveal our platoon's location either!

And by theway- I read that the traitor threatened to choke himself with the elastic band on his boxer shorts, hence the suicide watch and the nudity

Hell!...from what I've read about the tratior, he probably liked standing naked in front of the MPs!

[Franzl]

I understand. The military can do no evil.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

I understand. The military can do no evil.

Anyone can do evil... but releasing classified documents at a scale that this guy did is evil and anyone who says he ought to be let go is a  moron who does not understand how the world works

[Franzl]

I understand. The military can do no evil.

Anyone can do evil... but releasing classified documents at a scale that this guy did is evil and anyone who says he ought to be let go is a  moron who does not understand how the world works

And I'm not saying he should be let go. My issue is with the unacceptable treatment he got.

[Link]

*Revisionist Alert*

What a strange response. I assure you that I am definitely not shocked at civilians being killed in wartime by soldiers who are making difficult quick decisions and not deliberately trying to murder them.

I'm glad you are an adult with common sense and were not shocked about accidental friendly fire deaths in a decade long war, because Manning sure was...

That's precisely why I think that a war on such flimsy premises as this one is sufficiently immoral that we ought to be sympathetic to civil disobedience against it. Of course it's a violation of the legal oath he voluntarily signed; that's the point.

There is no indication that Manning did the indiscriminate data dump because we went to war with Iraq based on lies.  If you read the chat logs the guy goes on and on about the Apache video.  He doesn't say anthing about going to war over WMD.  Furthermore if you disagree with a war why would you enlist years after it was proven to have been started based on lies?  Oh I know you are going to tell us it was all part of his multi-year master plan.  Riiiggghhht.

You may also want to look up the definition of civil disobedience.



I think what is pissing a lot of people off is when people try and compare this troubled young man who was not of sound mind to MLK and Daniel Ellsberg.  Just FYI...

walking down a street, ordering a sandwich at a Woolworth's lunch counter, sitting on some steps at UC Berkley≠abusing your security clearance and dumping every bit of secret US government data you have access to on the internet.

There is a difference.  It's subtle, but it's there if you look real close.

Manning released videotape evidence of civilians being killed for no military reason by the army of a foreign country that had unjustly invaded their country based on lies.

If you learned that from the Manning data dump you live a charmed life.

What a strange response.

Strange response?!  What I think is a strange response is watching a video of a friendly fire incident and concluding the best thing to do is to divulge secret diplomatic cables to Liechtenstein.

Nothing significant regarding human rights and criminality was learned from Mannings data dump.  What did happen was hundreds perhaps thousands of innocent civilians' lives have now been put at risk because of what this guy callously divulged.  What should be the appropriate response from the US military?  A medal?

All joking and sarcasm aside I think we actually agree on a lot of things.  We both agree the indiscriminate part was wrong and should be prosecuted.  I actually don't think leaking the Apache video was that big of a deal.  But I don't think it should be celebrated.  If Manning could leak something that could put Bush or Cheney in jail that would be something to talk about.  I don't see how leaking a video of one of your fellow soldiers making an honest mistake helps anything.

[Link]

Cool man, for my part I frequently try to read between the lines too much in others posts.

Naw, not your fault.  A lot of my posts are over the top and provactive.  It was my bad.

IIRC, wasn't a large part of Manning illegally disclosing this was that he was just a really unstable and depressed malcontent? I think people might be projecting the whistleblower hero onto him.  

They are definitely projecting.  Long before we knew Manning as Sir-Dumps-Alot he was exhibiting his antisocial behavior in a variety of other ways...



He was in the process of getting drummed out of the Army when he suddenly grew a conscious and decided to do his data dump.  How convenient.  I wouldn't necessarily call him a traitor.  I guess he technically is a traitor, but he had some obvious issues and the Army really shouldn't have given him a security clearance or sent him to Iraq.  We can't go back in time and the Army has to maintain order in its ranks.  It has to make an example out of this guy.  But considering the guy's mental illness they really can afford to be a bit more lenient with him.

[Franzl]

By the way, Clarence, do you always think in terms of "friends" and "enemies"? You know, actually looking at something yourself and judging it based on morality, etc. might be just a tad more sensible.