Welfare in the US

[Duke David]

Briefly and succinctly, why are universal health care and especially social welfare so heavily frowned upon in the US?

[Wonkish1]

Briefly and succinctly, why are universal health care and especially social welfare so heavily frowned upon in the US?

Since you asked for "briefly and succinctly" because they don't work well, they make matters worse, and negatively impact future growth(and thereby the standards of livings of future poor people).

[Duke David]

Since you asked for "briefly and succinctly" because they don't work well, they make matters worse, and negatively impact future growth(and thereby the standards of livings of future poor people).

I'm sorry to say the economical data in North, Central and West Europe (and also in Japan) prove you absolutely wrong.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Since you asked for "briefly and succinctly" because they don't work well, they make matters worse, and negatively impact future growth(and thereby the standards of livings of future poor people).

I'm sorry to say the economical data in North, Central and West Europe (and also in Japan) prove you absolutely wrong.

America and Europe are almost incomparable. America is made up of states, which hold most of the power in this country on issues like Education and Healthcare. Germany takes up as much space as Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan. I estimate that they make up 20% of the country in land. Its much easier for a Federally run government program to operate in small countries, like France, or the UK, compared to the US. So its best the states run these programs. And some states do have universal healthcare, like Massachusetts.

Personally, I think Universal Healthcare on a national scale would (and will) fail. You can't federalize these types of things, because each state is differant.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Welfare is also seen as being a drag on productive citizens who have to subsidize the unproductive.

[Wonkish1]

Since you asked for "briefly and succinctly" because they don't work well, they make matters worse, and negatively impact future growth(and thereby the standards of livings of future poor people).

I'm sorry to say the economical data in North, Central and West Europe (and also in Japan) prove you absolutely wrong.

Doesn't prove $hit. None of those countries put up the growth numbers, per capita income(outside of couple countries/principalities like Monaco and Luxembourg), standard of living, etc. enjoyed by those of us in the US.


And since the OP asked for brief and succinct I couldn't go into details on a very complicated question.

[Wonkish1]

Since you asked for "briefly and succinctly" because they don't work well, they make matters worse, and negatively impact future growth(and thereby the standards of livings of future poor people).

I'm sorry to say the economical data in North, Central and West Europe (and also in Japan) prove you absolutely wrong.

America and Europe are almost incomparable. America is made up of states, which hold most of the power in this country on issues like Education and Healthcare. Germany takes up as much space as Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan. I estimate that they make up 20% of the country in land. Its much easier for a Federally run government program to operate in small countries, like France, or the UK, compared to the US. So its best the states run these programs. And some states do have universal healthcare, like Massachusetts.

Personally, I think Universal Healthcare on a national scale would (and will) fail. You can't federalize these types of things, because each state is differant.

Look the people in the US already got managed care through the offering of HMOs. They rejected it. The American people will not voluntarily hand over their demand for extreme high quality in healthcare in the interest of managed cost savings.

But that is beside the point. This is a very, very complicated question. I mean just taking a look at the differences between German and British healthcare are staggering.

Unless this thread becomes one where people discuss these issues in detail instead of "briefly and succinctly" then there really isn't much to be said.

[Lief 🗽]

Again, the answer is due to a historical lack of class consciousness (and the reason for that is a number of things, including the availability of cheap land in 18th and 19th century America and the ethnic, religious and national divisions in the country).

[Duke David]

Isn't there any Democrat that wants to defend me against them Republican and Libertarian villains?


@Wonkish1

You really seem to love the expression briefly and succinctly, as you use it in each of your posts...
FYI: It refers to MY question, which I didn't want to expound in more detail. Got it?

[Wonkish1]

Isn't there any Democrat that wants to defend me against them Republican and Libertarian villains?

Well first of all in the big leagues you defend yourselves you don't call others to come help you out.

Second, the OP pretty much killed any reasonable chance of anybody actually defending anything because of the way he phrased the question unless of course you just want sit hear and exchange over generalities and little tidbits back and forth.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Isn't there any Democrat that wants to defend me against them Republican and Libertarian villains?

Villains? Supporting Freedom and Personal choice makes us villains? You would not call a person who is pro choice on Abortion a villain, yet when it comes to other issues where personal preference is a options its bad...left wing hypocrisy at its best.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Many Americans want to feel they are economically independent, and that they can take care of themselves. They want to take care of themselves, their families and often their community, but not people they don't know in ways they don't have control over.

[Wonkish1]

@Wonkish1

You really seem to love the expression briefly and succinctly, as you use it in each of your posts...
FYI: It refers to MY question, which I didn't want to expound in more detail. Got it?

Alright, so you want a detailed discussion of healthcare policy?

How about you start off by telling me the difference between Canadian, British, and German healthcare systems and the impact of those different systems on costs, cost containment, quality, etc. since you seem to think that "Universal Healthcare"(a very non specific term) is such an amazing thing?

[Link]

Briefly and succinctly, why are universal health care and especially social welfare so heavily frowned upon in the US?

One big factor is this garbage "American Dream."  Everyone thinks they are "going to make it" someday.  They all think they are going to "start a small business"  and "be their own boss."  Instead of realizing that most people will die penniless and instead work on a system that provides a reasonable social safety net they all want to shoot for the stars with no net.  In short... mass ignorance and psychosis.

[Duke David]

Isn't there any Democrat that wants to defend me against them Republican and Libertarian villains?

Well first of all in the big leagues you defend yourselves you don't call others to come help you out.

You oughta admit that this thread isn't any kind of balanced out in terms of party affiliation...

[Link]

FYI: It refers to MY question, which I didn't want to expound in more detail. Got it?

To be honest I was a little confused about the use of succinctly too.

PS Merkel does have some huge orbs.  I never noticed that.  I'm reporting your signature.  I'm sure it's pornographic.

[Duke David]

@Wonkish1

You really seem to love the expression briefly and succinctly, as you use it in each of your posts...
FYI: It refers to MY question, which I didn't want to expound in more detail. Got it?

Alright, so you want a detailed discussion of healthcare policy?

Not quite. Chiefly, I want to know why so many (not most) Americans have a such violent aversion to something that is not worth discussing at all in every other industrial nation.

[Link]

Many Americans want to feel they are economically independent, and that they can take care of themselves. They want to take care of themselves, their families and often their community, but not people they don't know in ways they don't have control over.

So they are delusional AND selfish.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Isn't there any Democrat that wants to defend me against them Republican and Libertarian villains?

Well first of all in the big leagues you defend yourselves you don't call others to come help you out.

You oughta admit that this thread isn't any kind of balanced out in terms of party affiliation...

So you want everyone else to quit posting until a few Red and Green avatars pop up. This forum does not have a fairness doctrine..and I am pretty sure were mainly built up of Leftist/Center-Left posters too.

@Wonkish1

You really seem to love the expression briefly and succinctly, as you use it in each of your posts...
FYI: It refers to MY question, which I didn't want to expound in more detail. Got it?

Alright, so you want a detailed discussion of healthcare policy?

Not quite. Chiefly, I want to know why so many (not most) Americans have a such violent aversion to something that is not worth discussing at all in every other industrial nation.

Because were incomparable to other Industrial nations.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Many Americans want to feel they are economically independent, and that they can take care of themselves. They want to take care of themselves, their families and often their community, but not people they don't know in ways they don't have control over.

So they are delusional AND selfish.

Why should everybody be forced to share with others. If I had to choose between the neighbor people I don't know, or my Grandma, I rather pay for my Grandmas insurance.

(that's a terrible analogy I know, but it is more like a principle thing, not the way the system would not work that way)

[Wonkish1]

Isn't there any Democrat that wants to defend me against them Republican and Libertarian villains?

Well first of all in the big leagues you defend yourselves you don't call others to come help you out.

You oughta admit that this thread isn't any kind of balanced out in terms of party affiliation...

So?? Some of us are okay being in the minority of 10 against 1. Apparently you aren't.

[Link]

Because were incomparable to other Industrial nations.

True...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Because were incomparable to other Industrial nations.

True...

That's totally relevant Link......

[Link]

Many Americans want to feel they are economically independent, and that they can take care of themselves. They want to take care of themselves, their families and often their community, but not people they don't know in ways they don't have control over.

So they are delusional AND selfish.

Why should everybody be forced to share with others. If I had to choose between the neighbor people I don't know, or my Grandma, I rather pay for my Grandmas insurance.

(that's a terrible analogy I know, but it is more like a principle thing, not the way the system would not work that way)

I think the problem with many Republican arguments is that they are based on false choices.  Expanding and shoring up the social safety net≠throwing your grandmother from the train.  In fact it means just the opposite.  It's like buying insurance.  You don't consciously buy life insurance because you want to help the your neighbor's kids if they become orphans.  You buy it to help your kids but in buying it you strengthen the insurance pool (unless you are an avid skydiver or something).  By having everyone participate in social security the pool is strengthened and if your grandmother needs it (which I know she does) then it's there for her.

[Link]

Because were incomparable to other Industrial nations.

True...

That's totally relevant Link......

It was too good of a setup to pass up.  You know me.  You can't dangle candy like that out there and expect me not to react.  C'mon now.