Italian General Election 2012 ?

[SPQR]

Mario Monti has been nominated by President Napolitano as a "life-senator".
It's a mostly symbolic role (although they were the ones to save the Prodi government numerous times) assigned to former presidents or distinguished people from the scientific field.

This time,though,it's a clear move by Napolitano that after Berlusconi's official resignations there will be a tecnhocratic government (almost certainly led by Monti),and no snap elections until at least spring.

[Keystone Phil]

Mario Monti has been nominated by President Napolitano as a "life-senator".

An almost entirely elected body except for a handful of members. Another quirk of the Italian system (or maybe there are other countries that have it that I'm not aware of) that I'll never understand.

They need to have a Summer election sometime. I'd love to be there for that.

[SPQR]

Mario Monti has been nominated by President Napolitano as a "life-senator".

An almost entirely elected body except for a handful of members. Another quirk of the Italian system (or maybe there are other countries that have it that I'm not aware of) that I'll never understand.

They need to have a Summer election sometime. I'd love to be there for that.

The latest an election could be is June...

[Keystone Phil]

Mario Monti has been nominated by President Napolitano as a "life-senator".

An almost entirely elected body except for a handful of members. Another quirk of the Italian system (or maybe there are other countries that have it that I'm not aware of) that I'll never understand.

They need to have a Summer election sometime. I'd love to be there for that.

The latest an election could be is June...

Aside from a snap election, right?

I don't think there would be a Summer election anyway (in an even numbered year, at least) because of the World Cup or Euros. I imagine that would kill turnout.

[SPQR]

Mario Monti has been nominated by President Napolitano as a "life-senator".

An almost entirely elected body except for a handful of members. Another quirk of the Italian system (or maybe there are other countries that have it that I'm not aware of) that I'll never understand.

They need to have a Summer election sometime. I'd love to be there for that.

The latest an election could be is June...

Aside from a snap election, right?

I don't think there would be a Summer election anyway (in an even numbered year, at least) because of the World Cup or Euros. I imagine that would kill turnout.

An election in July or August would be nonsense anyway,football or not.

The fact that the last referendum,held in mid-June,had a >50% turnout was a miracle.
Elections are always held between March and June...

[Keystone Phil]

Mario Monti has been nominated by President Napolitano as a "life-senator".

An almost entirely elected body except for a handful of members. Another quirk of the Italian system (or maybe there are other countries that have it that I'm not aware of) that I'll never understand.

They need to have a Summer election sometime. I'd love to be there for that.

The latest an election could be is June...

Aside from a snap election, right?

I don't think there would be a Summer election anyway (in an even numbered year, at least) because of the World Cup or Euros. I imagine that would kill turnout.

An election in July or August would be nonsense anyway,football or not.

Well, I knew that for August since everyone - and it really seems like everyone - is away on vacation. But what about September through December if the government collapses?

[SPQR]

Mario Monti has been nominated by President Napolitano as a "life-senator".

An almost entirely elected body except for a handful of members. Another quirk of the Italian system (or maybe there are other countries that have it that I'm not aware of) that I'll never understand.

They need to have a Summer election sometime. I'd love to be there for that.

The latest an election could be is June...

Aside from a snap election, right?

I don't think there would be a Summer election anyway (in an even numbered year, at least) because of the World Cup or Euros. I imagine that would kill turnout.

An election in July or August would be nonsense anyway,football or not.

Well, I knew that for August since everyone - and it really seems like everyone - is away on vacation. But what about September through December if the government collapses?

That's not Summer
I don't recall any elections in the last years that happened in that period,also because there are a few economic "acts" that have to be approved around that time. But,theoretically,it's possible.

[Keystone Phil]

That's not Summer
I don't recall any elections in the last years that happened in that period,also because there are a few economic "acts" that have to be approved around that time. But,theoretically,it's possible.

You said "The latest an election could be is June." I didn't know if that meant for the whole year.

[SPQR]

That's not Summer
I don't recall any elections in the last years that happened in that period,also because there are a few economic "acts" that have to be approved around that time. But,theoretically,it's possible.

You said "The latest an election could be is June." I didn't know if that meant for the whole year.

No no,I meant before the summer.
And I still think about years in the academic way

[Keystone Phil]

What kind of election system you will have?

...in Italy? Uh, who wants to take this one...

[Antonio the Sixth]

What kind of election system you will have?

Unless there is some reform (which is what the left wants), it's PR with majority bonus.

Basically, people vote for party lists, and those party lists are allied in "coalitions". The coalition that gets the most votes wins 55% of seats, other 45% are distributed among parties that got more than 4%.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What kind of system left suports.

It's unclear, but from the few I've heard they seem to support a majoritarian system (FPP or 2-round). That kind of makes me sad, but I understand the left being constantly annoyed by stupid far-left outfits (see Prodi's government).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Of course they support a vaguely majoritarian system with a degree of personal electoral accountability; hasn't that been one of the causes of reformers in Italy since the Clean Hands business?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Of course they support a vaguely majoritarian system with a degree of personal electoral accountability; hasn't that been one of the causes of reformers in Italy since the Clean Hands business?

Yeah, indeed. Back in 1993, they established a system with was 75% FPP and 25% PR, but it worked like sh*t and didn't even prevent politcal fragmentation. As criticizable as the current system is, it's an improvement compared to the previous one.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As criticizable as the current system is, it's an improvement compared to the previous one.

How so? Rigged PR systems are about the worst things possible. Unless you like performing monkeys.

Edit: do you mean from the point of view of being opposed to political fragmentation?

[Antonio the Sixth]

As criticizable as the current system is, it's an improvement compared to the previous one.

How so? Rigged PR systems are about the worst things possible. Unless you like performing monkeys.

Edit: do you mean from the point of view of being opposed to political fragmentation?

This system was one of the messiest things ever seen. Yeah, political fragmentation was even worse, because big parties didn't run candidates in all constituencies in order to ensure their smaller allies parliamentary representation. Add to that compensatory PR, and we election results becoming horribly hard to read and the final seats results which, despite being messy, didn't represent the electorate. It basically cumulated the flaws of both systems.

[SPQR]

Of course they support a vaguely majoritarian system with a degree of personal electoral accountability; hasn't that been one of the causes of reformers in Italy since the Clean Hands business?

Yeah, indeed. Back in 1993, they established a system with was 75% FPP and 25% PR, but it worked like sh*t and didn't even prevent politcal fragmentation. As criticizable as the current system is, it's an improvement compared to the previous one.

Not really...the actual system is way worse than the previous one.
Right now,there is a referendum which still needs to be put on the agenda (it has received the needed number of signatures) to get back to the previous electoral law.
Right now,ALL of the deputies and senators are basically chosen by the party rather than by the people. It's nonsense.

Anyway,the electoral reform is one of the issues that the tecnhocratic government will have to face. PdL,Center and PD all have different opinions on it,so either we get again the Mattarellum (old electoral law) or some sort of compromise.

[Хahar 🤔]

It seems like IRV would be the best system for Italy.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It seems like IRV would be the best system for Italy.

I kind of agree, yeah. PR works fine in countries where parties have more discipline and are limited to a reasonable number.

[Iannis]

The previus system was hellish, firsty because FPTP is, in my opinion, not democratic and not representative, secondly because blackmail by smaller parties was very common. Now there is no choice of MPs, even though it's the same in Spain and Germany. I support preferences, and a german system with 4% threshold

[Antonio the Sixth]

I find it funny how in Italy left-wingers support majority and right-wingers support PR, while it's more or less the contrary everywhere else. Anyways, I'm personally kind of mixed on this issue. The current system doesn't exactly work fine, its predecessor was even worse, and it's possible that no system would ever result in a clear mandate for a government. In the long term, a proportional system excluding smaller parties is what we'd need, but so far none of those has worked efficiently.

[Hash]

I think some in the Spanish left made some comments about looking into exploring a dose of FPTP iirc.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I think some in the Spanish left made some comments about looking into exploring a dose of FPTP iirc.

Really ? Meh... The Spanish PR is already pretty screwed up by the small size of consituencies...

[Keystone Phil]

I find it funny how in Italy left-wingers support majority and right-wingers support PR, while it's more or less the contrary everywhere else.

[SPQR]

As long as they change the actual electoral system,I'm open to anything.