Legal immigrants from Mexico welcomed

[ag]

Well, yes, Northern Mexico had fewer natives, these were less settled and suffered fates not dissimilar to those of the natives in the adjoining US states. Historic Mesoamerica ends somewhere around Zacatecas: you go further north and the population is much sparser and much whiter. On top of everything you get all sorts of strange communities there: Mennonites and Mormons in Chihuahua, Chinese and Molokan in Baja California, etc., etc. - each one of them deserves a whole book for a fascinating story.

Mexico has never been an immigrant country. Of course, there was some movement of Spaniards in the colonial days (much more significant than in Argentina) and minor European migration thereafter. Early in the 20th century there was a major migration from the Ottoman empire (mostly Christian Arabs and Jews from places like Lebanon and Syria): this is, probably, the biggest of them all, though some Asian migration happened around that time as well. After that there was a major civil war: not the best time to migrate INTO Mexico. Then Spaniards fled Franco and Jews fled Hitler in the 1930s - both were notable, but relatively minor flows. In any case, 70% of Mexico's population is mestizo and another 12%-15% is outright Native American. ALL whites and asians together (mostly Spaniards, in fact) are barely 15% of the population.

[ag]

There is a big difference from Argentina: Mexico was a well-populated and culturally developed  country both before and after the conquest, but by the time massive migration to Argentina started, nobody would have called Mexico a "land of opportunity": it wasn't particularly wealthy, and whatever wealth there was was already in someone's hands. However, unlike Argentina, which spent its 20th century transforming itself from one of the world's wealthiest nations into a middle income Latin American country, Mexico did have some progress over time. We've converged: but we haven't been the same 100 years ago.

Of course, Northern Mexico was much more of a frontier land back in the time - less native population, little colonial settlement, it was much more attractive for migration. However, there was always that "minor" problem, that "white" migration was not devoid of risks for Mexican sovereignty: think Texas.

[Simfan34]

How can the US attract wealthy immigrants from the Southern Cone?

[ag]

How can the US attract wealthy immigrants from the Southern Cone?

You don't want them: they are insufferable ))

[CARLHAYDEN]

How can the US attract wealthy immigrants from the Southern Cone?

You don't want them: they are insufferable ))

Oh, from those I know, they are considerably better than certain 'moderators.'

[ag]

How can the US attract wealthy immigrants from the Southern Cone?

You don't want them: they are insufferable ))

Oh, from those I know, they are considerably better than certain 'moderators.'

Get a grip on reality: meet a porteño ))

[CARLHAYDEN]

How can the US attract wealthy immigrants from the Southern Cone?

You don't want them: they are insufferable ))

Oh, from those I know, they are considerably better than certain 'moderators.'

Get a grip on reality: meet a porteño ))

I have met residents of Buenas Aires (and other provinces)

In my experience, they are not as obnoxious as certain 'moderators.'

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

How can the US attract wealthy immigrants from the Southern Cone?

Why would they ever want to emigrate here?

[Edu]

Get a grip on reality: meet a porteño ))

Hey!

And thanks for the previous explanation about Mexico and all, definitely a topic I'm far from being an expert on

[redcommander]

Is there animosity between Mexicans and Argentinians? I noticed that ag brought up the stereotype I've heard from some Mexican Americans I know that Argentinians are snooty, particularly people from Buenos Aires. Also Mexico has equally been held back from developing its full economic potential because of government misguidance and corruption. Dozens of coups and ill-managed governments squandered Argentina's status as one of the most developed nations in the world, while Mexico should be a developed nation if one takes into consideration its vast natural wealth, but has been under a political system that has allowed most of the nation's wealth to be held by a select few.

[TJ in Oregon]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Inscribed upon the Statue of Liberty is the idea of immigration that our forefathers arrived to; the vision that from our immigrant past we could come together in the melting pot/salad bowl duality and build this great nation. We grew not from the wealthy aristocrats of Europe, but by those fleeing persecution, poverty, war, and disease. The wealthy aristocrats had no reason to leave for our shores. The poor and refused arrived to this country, many of them with nothing, and found work and better futures for their families. The immigrants and their sons built this nation, from the railroads to the skyscrapers.

But the world has changed now, we have entered a new era of postmodern, postindustrial decline. We aren’t building the railroads and the skyscrapers anymore; we’re arguing about which school or hospital to close. Look around at the empty warehouses and industry shut down, rampant across the rust belt in particular; the empty houses forgotten and left to raiders, drug addicts, and ruin. This nation’s industry has been abandoned for foreign shores. Our population has stagnated and the birthrate is dropping. We seem to think we’re some kind of purposeless elder race. Drive by the boarded up churches, a symbol of the faith that died.

The old immigrants from yesteryear have stagnated and become satisfied with life. We’ve become complacent and satiated by the comforts this (still) great country has to offer. But without new immigrants, we lose the lifeblood to build our nation’s future. We are a nation of immigrants.

The problem of illegal immigration has many components, including terrible enforcement that really does need to be changed, but somewhere in it of it is our point-blank refusal to accept the very people whose historical analog have built this country. I would like us to actually enforce our border first (and actually do it) but then accept the reality that we need immigrants.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

postmodern

I'm reasonably sure that you don't know what that word means.

[courts]

this (still) great country

Nope.

[courts]

The problem of illegal immigration has many components, including terrible enforcement that really does need to be changed, but somewhere in it of it is our point-blank refusal to accept the very people whose historical analog have built this country. I would like us to actually enforce our border first (and actually do it) but then accept the reality that we need immigrants.

Why do we need immigrants if we have a >15% real unemployment rate? We have more than enough people to fill jobs coming out of university or laid off, it's just that a lot of them are 'overqualified' or getting more on benefits than they would for actual jobs because of how things are structured. Hell with current productivity (never mind all the incremental increases we keep getting) we could feed the whole world easily and then some. The problem is our entire economy stopped making sense sometime when my parents were in high school.

[TJ in Oregon]

Having immigrants means population growth and population growth creates jobs. We would have more people to build houses for, roads for, schools for, grow food for, etc. In the past a lot of our productivity was based on the idea of an expanding economy for an expanding nation. Now, we have no reason to increase productivity.

[courts]

Having immigrants means population growth and population growth creates jobs.

Who says? Why is population growth past replacement level necessarily desirable anyway?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, in theory productivity would be a boon because we'd work less but yes, it really hasn't improved the average person's life obviously the last 30 years especially since it's just a reason to lay off or outsource instead (well okay not everyone has been affected, but well..).

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

After the great American brain drain of the 2010s, we're going to need significant immigration again.

[TJ in Oregon]

Who says? Why is population growth past replacement level necessarily desirable anyway?

Population growth is desireable because it delays the point where we end with an upside-
down age pyramid situation where most of the population is beyond working age.

It also, as I said before, creates the need to build things.

The problem is our entire economy stopped making sense sometime when my parents were in high school.

What is it specifically that you are hinting to here? Is it the elimination of the gold standard and the rise of fiduciary money? If so, what is so special about the gold standard? Gold doesn’t have any objective value (as Ayn Rand would say). It’s still only worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, no different than paper money. Only a tiny fraction of the gold we have is used for actual industrial processes.

[courts]

What is it specifically that you are hinting to here? Is it the elimination of the gold standard and the rise of fiduciary money? If so, what is so special about the gold standard? Gold doesn’t have any objective value (as Ayn Rand would say). It’s still only worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, no different than paper money. Only a tiny fraction of the gold we have is used for actual industrial processes.

Well the abandonment of anything physical backing our currency (other than oil, sort of) and subsequent dysfunctional arrangement with China certainly is one aspect I think. I was thinking more broadly than that though, like the advent of modern securitization and rampant abuse of credit cards, decline in vacation and other leisure time and need for two parents working despite the previously mentioned productivity gains, rampant 'planned obsolescence,' etc. Really many, if not most of our serious problems and general bad ideas date back to the '70s.

[TJ in Oregon]

You're right in that sense, with the advent of the credit card and increased reliance on loans, we do spend too much money before we actually earn it. I don't really so the point of having a physical piece of metal sitting in a vault somewhere to back currency, but yes, we do borrow too much, both as individuals and as a government.

[ag]

Well, yeah, there is a very strong anti-porteño stereotype, but it is not so much Mexican, as Latin American in general. It is so general and so well-known, in fact, that, I've noticed, job applicants from provincial Argentina tend to put a reference to their home town at the top of their cv, just to stress they are not from Buenos Aires (nobody else really does it). The BA natives (and, by extension, most Argentinians) are, generally, viewed as snooty, insufferable, Euro-wannabes. During the last big economic crisis in Argentina the sheer amount of Schadenfreude I heard expressed by educated Latin Americans of all stripes was really staggering (of course, most uneducated Mexicans don't really know much about Argentina or its dwellers, so the stereotype is, really, limited to the wealthy/educated elites).

The Southern Cone natives also have a problem w/ Mexico. I've heard of numerous cases of Mexican universities hiring Argentinians/Chileans/Uruguayans who'd leave in a year or two, usually under the threat of divorce from their unhappy spouses (it seems there is a certain type of a Southern Cone spouse that finds Mexican disorder particularly aggravating).

[redcommander]

Well, yeah, there is a very strong anti-porteño stereotype, but it is not so much Mexican, as Latin American in general. It is so general and so well-known, in fact, that, I've noticed, job applicants from provincial Argentina tend to put a reference to their home town at the top of their cv, just to stress they are not from Buenos Aires (nobody else really does it). The BA natives (and, by extension, most Argentinians) are, generally, viewed as snooty, insufferable, Euro-wannabes. During the last big economic crisis in Argentina the sheer amount of Schadenfreude I heard expressed by educated Latin Americans of all stripes was really staggering (of course, most uneducated Mexicans don't really know much about Argentina or its dwellers, so the stereotype is, really, limited to the wealthy/educated elites).

The Southern Cone natives also have a problem w/ Mexico. I've heard of numerous cases of Mexican universities hiring Argentinians/Chileans/Uruguayans who'd leave in a year or two, usually under the threat of divorce from their unhappy spouses (it seems there is a certain type of a Southern Cone spouse that finds Mexican disorder particularly aggravating).

What led to Buenos Aires developing that kind of reputation? Also the city has been a major center for immigration from Paraguay, Bolivia, Uruguay, and Chile in recent years, so isn't that sentiment changing somewhat?

[courts]

You're right in that sense, with the advent of the credit card and increased reliance on loans, we do spend too much money before we actually earn it. I don't really so the point of having a physical piece of metal sitting in a vault somewhere to back currency, but yes, we do borrow too much, both as individuals and as a government.

But why do we borrow so much? Simply because we want nice things? To fund programs? No, not entirely - because money is backed by debt. More to the point, it must enter into the system as more debt. That was always true, but now because money doesn't have to be tied to anything physical at all plus the elaborate "securitization" schemes and "fractional reserve" policies enacted, we obviously already have far more debt than physical money or ability to ever pay any of that back. And we just keep compounding on it.

Incidentally I don't support a strict gold or silver standard. Nor do I think that's definitely what the market would choose if left to its devices even if people naturally tend to go with things they know won't depreciate in value. I could see other commodities, crude bartering or even bitcoin taking off depending on region and technological development/maintenance. But I do think we should have a choice, especially with groups like OPEC openly transitioning away from the dollar.

[TJ in Oregon]

We've also stopped actually producing anything. Our economy is becoming more and more service based while we just import the things we need from other countries that still produce them. We are transferring much of our wealth overseas. I don't know how we can expect to remain the richest nation on earth with the kind of trade deficit we have. All of these things became problems right when the decline in our manufacturing sector took place.

If we had more immigrants, we would be building more things here and keep more industries open. We would also have a larger pool of labor with lower payment expectations, since they would still be better off than in their home countries.

[CARLHAYDEN]

We've also stopped actually producing anything. Our economy is becoming more and more service based while we just import the things we need from other countries that still produce them. We are transferring much of our wealth overseas. I don't know how we can expect to remain the richest nation on earth with the kind of trade deficit we have. All of these things became problems right when the decline in our manufacturing sector took place.

If we had more immigrants, we would be building more things here and keep more industries open. We would also have a larger pool of labor with lower payment expectations, since they would still be better off than in their home countries.

TJ.

You exaggerate somewhat.we haven't "stopped actually producing anything."  While services do account for a larger percenatage of the U.S. economy than was formerly the case, goods still are produced in the United Staes.

Second, what is happening in manufacturing is historically pretty typical.  When technology plateaus, production slide to low cost producers.  However, those producers do not have the ability to produce the products when the next level of technology occurs.  So then, the products once again are produced in the technology savvy nations.

Third, we do not need to import unskilled labor to compete with third world nations in low wages to produce goods, but rather need to encourage the immigration of those who will innovate and develope new products.