Legal immigrants from Mexico welcomed

[CARLHAYDEN]

In an article “Well-off Mexicans part of quiet exodus to US.” It is noted that “tens of thousands of well-off Mexicans have moved north of the border  and that unlike the illegal entrants, “they are being warmly welcomed.”

Could it possibly be that entering the United States legally versus illegally just might make the difference in their reception?

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_7a66d6c7-d0d8-56dc-a354-6768f953d529.html

[Simfan34]

And the well-off part. I say we be like Canada and encourage well educated and wealthy people to immigrate here.

[ag]

You confuse causality ) They are rich, white and blond. That is why they are legal.

It's really very simple. By US law a vast majority of Mexicans cannot legally enter the United States under any circumstances, having comitted an unpardonable (from the US standpoint) crime of being born poor and dark-skined. But Mexico is big. About 10 mln. Mexicans (myself included) hold 10 year visas, which allow us to cross US border nearly at will (my estimate is based on the fact that about a million such visas are issued every year), which most of us do several times a year (I think, I average 4 US border crossings in each 12 month period). Most of us are rich and white (and, to a not insignificant degree blond). Most of us would have no difficulty getting a US resident visa either (at least twice in my life I, in fact, chose not to get it, when I could). Until going got tough in northern Mexico, the latter option wasn't of interest to most of those rich, white and blond, though many of them choose to give births in US hospitals to guarantee the US citizenship for their children - these are the real "anchor babies". These days they are running scared - some of them run south, to Mexico City, some of them go closer home, to Texas. As many of them are, actually, US citizens by birth, it is not particularly difficult.

Chances are, if you saw any of them in the street, you'd never identify them as Mexicans (I, probably, would: by the accent in their Spanish and by the Mexican habbit of using blankets to cover babies in such a way that not an inch of them is visible).   

[Sbane]

Americans like rich immigrants. Actually it's sort of a world wide phenomenon. People don't like the other especially when they are poors.

[dead0man]

I'm not sure why America is being singled out here at all.  Most western countries are actually worse in this regard if memory servers (unless you count colony loopholes, limited numbers of hardship cases and what not).

...

and looking at some numbers, the US has a LOT more immigrants than most other western nations.  In raw numbers (20% of the worlds immigrants live in the US, more than three times more than second place Russia) and, to a lesser extent, as a percentage of overall population (13% vs, say, France 10, UK 9, Norway 7).  Canada does surprisingly well here (18.76%).  Germany (12.3%), Australia (20), NZ (15.5) are all very good too.

[Sbane]

How is the US being singled out here?

[dead0man]

They're not, I'm defensive, feel better?

[minionofmidas]

They're not, I'm defensive, feel better?

They're not singled out; the topic under discussion just happened to be Mexican emigration. Mexican emigration to anywhere but the US is quite the fringe phenomenon.

That said,

Most western countries are actually worse in this regard if memory servers (unless you count colony loopholes, limited numbers of hardship cases and what not)

Yep. Absolutely. Though without the giant loophole of undocumented but effectively tolerated ("illegal") immigration, the US situation wouldn't look quite as good. Though it'd still be above the alas-too-low OECD par. It's quite the US-specific situation, that.

[Sbane]

Yes, you are a little defensive. Every country on earth, except for some European countries (who have a bunch of problems with immigrants now), tries to only let in qualified individuals. Hell, most countries on earth are downright hostile to immigrants. I was just pointing out that Americans, like most people on earth, would like it more if all Mexican immigrants (don't necessarily have to be Mexicans of course) were middle class rather than working class. Feel better?

[dead0man]

Yes thank you

[minionofmidas]

Like the sig, btw.

[ag]

I'm not sure why America is being singled out here at all. 

Not at all, But Mexicans don't migrate anywhere else: there is a reason we can still travel visa-free to Europe.

[Хahar 🤔]

Canada does surprisingly well here (18.76%).

No surprise here. Everyone has a cousin in Canada.

[CARLHAYDEN]

You confuse causality ) They are rich, white and blond. That is why they are legal.

It's really very simple. By US law a vast majority of Mexicans cannot legally enter the United States under any circumstances, having comitted an unpardonable (from the US standpoint) crime of being born poor and dark-skined. But Mexico is big. About 10 mln. Mexicans (myself included) hold 10 year visas, which allow us to cross US border nearly at will (my estimate is based on the fact that about a million such visas are issued every year), which most of us do several times a year (I think, I average 4 US border crossings in each 12 month period). Most of us are rich and white (and, to a not insignificant degree blond). Most of us would have no difficulty getting a US resident visa either (at least twice in my life I, in fact, chose not to get it, when I could). Until going got tough in northern Mexico, the latter option wasn't of interest to most of those rich, white and blond, though many of them choose to give births in US hospitals to guarantee the US citizenship for their children - these are the real "anchor babies". These days they are running scared - some of them run south, to Mexico City, some of them go closer home, to Texas. As many of them are, actually, US citizens by birth, it is not particularly difficult.

Chances are, if you saw any of them in the street, you'd never identify them as Mexicans (I, probably, would: by the accent in their Spanish and by the Mexican habbit of using blankets to cover babies in such a way that not an inch of them is visible).   

Ag,

 Get a grip on reality.

[redcommander]

I'm not sure why America is being singled out here at all. 

Not at all, But Mexicans don't migrate anywhere else: there is a reason we can still travel visa-free to Europe.

I don't think that's entirely true. There are sizable Mexican communities in places like Spain, Argentina, and even Canada, but no where near as large as the United States.

[ag]

Actually, Mexican community in Spain is tiny. I lived in Spain for a year (spent a sabbatical there): it is striking how few Mexicans are around. I believe, Mexico is not on the list of 30 countries w/ the largest immigrant communities in Spain: it's that small. There are some expats - but, then, there are quite a few Spanish ex-pats in Mexico. In fact, considering how many young Spaniards spend a few years in Mexico (working, traveling, etc.), there must be quite a few Mexican-born Spaniards, but few of them are truly immigrants (they were born in Mexico because their Spanish parents happened to be there at the moment).

I haven't been to Argentina, but, though, surely, there must be an ex-pat community there, it can't be larger than the Argentinian ex-pat community in Mexico: it's a two-way street between culturally related countries of similar income levels. Canada might be another matter: there is a reason 2 years ago Canadians introduced visas for Mexican tourists. Hadn't been there previously, though.

[ag]

Ag,

 Get a grip on reality.

Unlike you, I, actually, have a grip on reality ))

[Kevin]

Actually, Mexican community in Spain is tiny. I lived in Spain for a year (spent a sabbatical there): it is striking how few Mexicans are around. I believe, Mexico is not on the list of 30 countries w/ the largest immigrant communities in Spain: it's that small. There are some expats - but, then, there are quite a few Spanish ex-pats in Mexico. In fact, considering how many young Spaniards spend a few years in Mexico (working, traveling, etc.), there must be quite a few Mexican-born Spaniards, but few of them are truly immigrants (they were born in Mexico because their Spanish parents happened to be there at the moment).

I haven't been to Argentina, but, though, surely, there must be an ex-pat community there, it can't be larger than the Argentinian ex-pat community in Mexico: it's a two-way street between culturally related countries of similar income levels. Canada might be another matter: there is a reason 2 years ago Canadians introduced visas for Mexican tourists. Hadn't been there previously, though.

Spain may not have a large Mexican community, but it does have a sizable(and up to recently) quickly growing Central and Latin American immigrant population.

From what I know also Ireland, France, Portugal, the Netherlands and even the UK were also amongst the countries besides the US to have a rapidly growing population of Central/Latin American immigrants.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Ag,

 Get a grip on reality.

Unlike you, I, actually, have a grip on reality ))

Your posts contradict your statement.

[ag]

Spain may not have a large Mexican community, but it does have a sizable(and up to recently) quickly growing Central and Latin American immigrant population.

This is like saying that Wisconsin has a huge Italian community and then acknowledging that you really meant Norwegians - who cares, they are all European. Yes, Spain has a number of large Latin American communities - but no Mexican community to speak of. Latin American countries are different in many different respects. For instance, the difference in terms of income between Mexico and Guatemala is comparable w/ that between US and Mexico: thesee are very different countries not to be confused (and in Spain they don't confuse them, as speaking Spanish isn't such a defining charactersitic of migrants there ) ).

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Ag,

 Get a grip on reality.

THE IRONY

IT BURNS

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Actually, Mexican community in Spain is tiny. I lived in Spain for a year (spent a sabbatical there): it is striking how few Mexicans are around. I believe, Mexico is not on the list of 30 countries w/ the largest immigrant communities in Spain: it's that small. There are some expats - but, then, there are quite a few Spanish ex-pats in Mexico. In fact, considering how many young Spaniards spend a few years in Mexico (working, traveling, etc.), there must be quite a few Mexican-born Spaniards, but few of them are truly immigrants (they were born in Mexico because their Spanish parents happened to be there at the moment).

I haven't been to Argentina, but, though, surely, there must be an ex-pat community there, it can't be larger than the Argentinian ex-pat community in Mexico: it's a two-way street between culturally related countries of similar income levels. Canada might be another matter: there is a reason 2 years ago Canadians introduced visas for Mexican tourists. Hadn't been there previously, though.

Two of my cousins are Mexican emigrants to Spain but my family is very middle class and strange.

You're right though, the character of Mexican emigration differs radically from other Central American countries. Mexican emigrants to countries other than the US tend to be affluent and educated from what I've read. My family fits that pattern.

[Gustaf]

I have a close friend who's half-Mexican and half-Swedish. He has cousins in Austria. They're all rather rich. That's basically all I can offer on the topic of Mexican migration...

Oh, I also met this other friend of mine who's a Mexican exchange student the other day and he was talking about how Northern Mexico where he hailed from has a lot more "European-looking" people (excluding himself though!) than the Southern part, where people are more Mexican.

He basically argued that Northern Mexico was very Americanized, while the Southern part was a lot more Latin American (in terms of culture, language, etc).

[Edu]

I haven't been to Argentina, but, though, surely, there must be an ex-pat community there, it can't be larger than the Argentinian ex-pat community in Mexico: it's a two-way street between culturally related countries of similar income levels. Canada might be another matter: there is a reason 2 years ago Canadians introduced visas for Mexican tourists. Hadn't been there previously, though.

From what I could find both Mexicans in Argentina and Argies in Mexico are about 8.500 (though other sources say that Argies in Mexico are about 10.000 or 13.000)

I suppose the inmmigration patters from the most well off countries in Latin America, Like Mexico, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay are probably similar. Mexico is a bit different because of their condition as a country bordering the United States. Countries like Argentina lack a close enough first world country where poor people could emigrate. This results in most Argie emigrants being middle class or higher (maybe lower middle class in some cases).
I'm guessing something similar happens to Mexican emigrants who go to any other place besides the USA and it's also probably the case for Chilean emigrants for instance.



Ok, on wikipedia I found some info about the numbers of emigrants to each country. Of course these numbers may vary depending on the source, so take it with a grain of salt if you want. This is just for fun though, since it tells little about the wealth or social class of the emigrants.

The top 5 countries with Argentine immigrants.
1 - Spain (229.009)
2 - USA (144.023) (Ugh, Miami )
3 - Paraguay (61.649)
4 - Chile (59.637)
5 - Israel (43.718)

I'm guessing the poorer emigrants are going to Paraguay which borders the north of the country which is very poor.

The top 5 countries with Mexican immigrants
1 - USA (9.985.345)
2 - Canada (36.225)
3 - Spain (14.399)
4 - Germany (12.529)
5 - Guatemala (11.481)

Top 5 countries with Chilean immigrants
1 - Argentina (211.093)
2 - USA (80.805)
3 - Sweden (23.345)
4 - Canada (25.415)
5 - Australia (23.420)

Oh, I also met this other friend of mine who's a Mexican exchange student the other day and he was talking about how Northern Mexico where he hailed from has a lot more "European-looking" people (excluding himself though!) than the Southern part, where people are more Mexican.

He basically argued that Northern Mexico was very Americanized, while the Southern part was a lot more Latin American (in terms of culture, language, etc).

I'm far from being an expert on this topic, but I'm guessing that he's right in the sense that the north being more "european looking" has to do with being next to the US and the fact that Mexico has about 350.000 americans living there.

I thought it was at first because of the european immigration to the country in the early 20th century, but I just looked at the numbers and there wasn't a lot of immigration at the time (maybe ag can correct me if I say something stupid).

In 1921 mexico had 29.565 spaniards living there, followed by Chinese at 14.472 and finally Guatemalans that numbered 13.974.
In 1921 there were 100.854 foreigners living in Mexico which is about 0,70% of the population.

In contrast, in 1914 Argentina had 2.391.171 foreigners living here which meant that 30,3% of the population was born outside Argentina.
From that number we have that 1.783.358 (74,6%) came from Italy and Spain. Another 400.000 (16,8%) came from other non-bordering countries (mostly from other parts of Europe) and finally 8,6% (206.000) came from the 5 bordering countries.

Ag, is there any reason why Mexico didn't have that much immigration during the early 20th century? I'm really not that knowledgeable about this kind of things

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

The reason why northern Mexico is much whiter demographically and more European/American culturally has to do with demographic patterns stretching back to the 1600s. Northern Mexico was not very populated with advanced indigenous tribes and was fairly empty so when settlements were founded further north in Chihuahua and Monterrey, nearly all migrants were white criollos (of course all of these settlements were tiny but the point remains that criollos were dominant here).  This contrasts with southern Mexico where obviously there was a very dense population of natives that remained dominant there with their distinct language and culture for centuries. As an example of just how dominated by indigenous peoples most of Oaxaca and Chiapas are: Benito Juarez had to learn Spanish during his late teenage years. This was in the mid 1800s.

Northern Mexico is more white because there were less natives there to begin with, not because of immigration to Mexico. Although both of my great-Grandparents on my Mom's side of the family were Spanish emigrants but like I said my family is strange.

I could keep going on this topic but I'll leave the heavy lifting to ag.