Voting Rights Amendment II

[7,052,770]

I'd like to propose this constitutional amendment:

Voting Requirements Amendment II

Section One
A member of the Atlas Forum must obtain 50 posts before becoming eligible to vote in the Atlas Fantasy Elections.  A Forum Member must obtain 250 posts before becoming eligible to run for senate and 500 posts before becoming eligible to run for President.

Section Two
Any currently registered voter without 50 posts will not be affected by this amendment.  Any current office holder without enough posts will not be removed from office, but will he/she will have to obtain the necessary posts to run for reelection.

[Peter]

I would like to offer a few friendly amendments, though obviously I don't have the power to propose them officially.

For a start "to run for Office X" is cumbersome in my opinion. I assume it means you must have that many posts to declare candidacy for election to the post. This is problematic:

1. WMS has recently been elected (or possibly not) without ever officially declaring candidacy since he was a write-in. His candidacy would be unaffected by this Amendment.
2. There might one day be people in the line of succession who do not meet the Presidency requirement. Yet since they never ran for the office, they could theoretically succeed to it.

The first sentence of Section One is problematic also. I can interpret that to mean that as soon as anybody gains 50 posts, that automatically gain the right to vote.

I suggest the following language for Section One:

From the date of ratification of this amendment, no person shall be able to register as a voter unless they have first obtained fifty posts. No person shall be eligible to be a Senator unless he has first obtained 250 posts and is a registered voter. No person shall be eligible to be President unless he has first obtained 500 posts and is a registered voter.

The way that the above is worded actually precludes the necessity of Section Two since all presently registered voters remain on the rolls (because they are already registered), and the provisions on the President and Senators do not affect any incumbents.

[Colin]

I would like to offer a few friendly amendments, though obviously I don't have the power to propose them officially.

For a start "to run for Office X" is cumbersome in my opinion. I assume it means you must have that many posts to declare candidacy for election to the post. This is problematic:

1. WMS has recently been elected (or possibly not) without ever officially declaring candidacy since he was a write-in. His candidacy would be unaffected by this Amendment.
2. There might one day be people in the line of succession who do not meet the Presidency requirement. Yet since they never ran for the office, they could theoretically succeed to it.

The first sentence of Section One is problematic also. I can interpret that to mean that as soon as anybody gains 50 posts, that automatically gain the right to vote.

I suggest the following language for Section One:

From the date of ratification of this amendment, no person shall be able to register as a voter unless they have first obtained fifty posts. No person shall be eligible to be a Senator unless he has first obtained one hundred posts and is a registered voter. No person shall be eligible to be President unless he has first obtained 250 posts and is a registered voter.

The way that the above is worded actually precludes the necessity of Section Two since all presently registered voters remain on the rolls (because they are already registered), and the provisions on the President and Senators do not affect any incumbents.

So you support the lowering of the requirements from the proposed 200 for Senate to 100 and from the proposed 500 required for the office of President to 250?

[Peter]

So you support the lowering of the requirements from the proposed 200 for Senate to 100 and from the proposed 500 required for the office of President to 250?

Sorry. That's a misread on my part. I will correct it forthwith; I did not intend to alter the intent of Harry's Amendment.

[7,052,770]

That's great Peter.  I withdraw the previous amendment and replace it with this:

Voting Rights Amendment II

1. From the date of ratification of this amendment, no person shall be able to register as a voter unless they have first obtained fifty posts. No person shall be eligible to be a Senator unless he has first obtained 250 posts and is a registered voter. No person shall be eligible to be President unless he has first obtained 500 posts and is a registered voter.

2. Members who are currently registered to vote shall not have their registration voided if they do not meet the new requirement.
Current officer holders who do not meet the requirements will be allowed to finish their terms.

[DanielX]

I would support this amendment, if the post count were reduced to the following:

Vote: 40
Senate: 125
President: 300

[Defarge]

I stand in full support with Harry's amendment.

[True Democrat]

I cannot support this amendment unless the requirements are lowered.

[Akno21]

I cannot support this amendment unless the requirements are lowered.

How low can you go?

[True Democrat]

I cannot support this amendment unless the requirements are lowered.

How low can you go?

Vote: 30, 15 in Fantasy Boards
Senate: 75 (100 would be fine, but 75 is preferable)
President: 200

Here's another idea.  This will never pass, but why not make the voting requirement 50, and give any voter the ability to run for any office.  Novices should be allowed to run for office.

[Jake]

I cannot support this amendment unless the requirements are lowered.

How low can you go?

Vote: 30, 15 in Fantasy Boards
Senate: 75 (100 would be fine, but 75 is preferable)
President: 200

Here's another idea.  This will never pass, but why not make the voting requirement 50, and give any voter the ability to run for any office.  Novices should be allowed to run for office.

How about we actually have standards. Don't even waste your time if you raise it to 30-40. Raise it to 50 and accomplish something.

[Colin]

I cannot support this amendment unless the requirements are lowered.

How low can you go?

Vote: 30, 15 in Fantasy Boards
Senate: 75 (100 would be fine, but 75 is preferable)
President: 200

Here's another idea.  This will never pass, but why not make the voting requirement 50, and give any voter the ability to run for any office.  Novices should be allowed to run for office.

True Democrat those requirements that you have placed forward would do nothing to stop inactives from registering. These would be at best trivial attempts that would not solve any problems. Maybe this is slightly influenced by the fact that much of your support came from voters who are inactive and that you yourself was inactive. We cannot solve problems by taking insignificant steps we need to take steps that might actually work. I support Senator Harry's legislation and I consider it a step in the right direction.

[True Democrat]

This forum is supposed to somewhat simulate the real world, and in the real world ignorant people are allowed to vote.  I do believe the people should be educated, but  the real world should still be modeled after.

[StevenNick]

I support this amendment.  I, of course, would prefer higher standards, but this is certainly a step in the right direction.  Cudos for my fellow Senator-unelect Harry for introducing this rather than just letting the issue die.

[Colin]

This forum is supposed to somewhat simulate the real world, and in the real world ignorant people are allowed to vote.  I do believe the people should be educated, but  the real world should still be modeled after.

Why should we model everything after the real world? If we did that we wouldn't have regions we would have states. If we did that we would have a House of Representatives along with a Senate. If this was absolutely realistic we would have First Past the Post voting instead of the Preferential system. Atlasia isn't supposed to be exactly the same as the US and I would prefer it not to. This is just an attempt to keep such said "ignorant" voters on the rolls and allow more pocket votes for incumbants.

[Redefeatbush04]

The post requirements sound alright Harry, but it has the same problem that the last one did. It still encourages spamming.  I once again recommend that one must be on the forum for 1 week before being able to vote (only those with more than seven posts per day affected), 25 days before being able to run for senate (only those with 10 or more posts per day will be affected), and 40 days for president (only those with more than twelve and 1/2 posts per day will be affected).

[JohnFKennedy]

I hereby open the debate.

[True Democrat]

I do not support this bill as you can see from my earlier comments.

I cannot support this amendment unless the requirements are lowered.

How low can you go?

Vote: 30, 15 in Fantasy Boards
Senate: 75 (100 would be fine, but 75 is preferable)
President: 200

Here's another idea. This will never pass, but why not make the voting requirement 50, and give any voter the ability to run for any office. Novices should be allowed to run for office.

By having 50 posts, voters start to spam.

[The Dowager Mod]

I don't think we should be making it harder for people to participate.

[True Democrat]

I don't think we should be making it harder for people to participate.

I completely agree.

[JohnFKennedy]

I hereby open the voting on this amendment.

All Senators please vote Yea, Nay or abstain.

[The Dowager Mod]

Nay.

[JohnFKennedy]

Nay

[PBrunsel]

I welcome any voting reform.

[7,052,770]

Yea