Would you rather go to a Christian emoviolence show or BushOK's church?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

At one you get to be pushed around in a pit while someone acts like they're having a seizure and screams incoherently about something you may or may not believe in but you wouldn't even be able to understand it anyway. And a good chance you'll have someone jump on top of you or get kicked at least once.

At the other you sit in a bench and listen about how you're going to hell for an hour.

[patrick1]

At one you get to be [threatened to be] pushed around in a pit [for eternity] while someone acts like they're having a seizure and screams incoherently about something you may or may not believe in but you wouldn't even be able to understand it anyway.

We're not so different you and I....

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Option one. It would be far more interesting.

[The Mikado]

Church, provided I get to stay seated during communion.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I'm opposed to needless violence, so I'd rather go to the church

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Come to think of it, a Christian emoviolence show would be pretty difficult since I can count the number of such bands that I can think of on one hand (Edict of Milan, Sinking Steps...Rising Eyes, A Promise of Restoration, Fable and Lights for Nero are the only ones that come to mind, early mewithoutYou was heavily emoviolence-influenced but not in the genre.), and none are active and they weren't all active at the same time...so the hypothetical would also include non-Christian bands. Not that you'd be able to tell the difference anyway.

Church, provided I get to stay seated during communion.

Why?

I'm opposed to needless violence, so I'd rather go to the church

BushOklahoma's church indirectly promotes violence against homosexuals, violence against the Palestinian people, and wars and American militarism.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Whichever has hotter women.

[Torie]

The term "Christian emoviolence" is really a mouthful for me. I can't quite get my mind around it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The term "Christian emoviolence" is really a mouthful for me. I can't quite get my mind around it.

What don't you get? The Christian part or the emoviolence part?

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This is what an emoviolence show looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgL7Fh6ZjnI

So Christian emoviolence, well it's that, except it's Christian music.

[TJ in Oregon]

Church, provided I get to stay seated during communion.

Although I suspect the staying seated for communion part is for different reasons. For me, Catholics are not supposed to receive communion in Protestant churches (though I'm not at all sure why The Mikado said this). In a BushOK-style church I'd undoubtedly have to sit through a ton of things I'd have theological disagreements with. They probably will tell me I'm going to hell. Despite all this I'd probably learn something about how Evangelicals think and I have a grand total of one Evangelical friend in real life so it'd be quite a learning experience. Still, I'd feel extremely awkward and out of place. I'm used to being around a left-wing quasi-atheist crowd I disagree with but not a right-wing Evangelical crowd I disagree with.

As for the emoviolence show, I’d also stick out like a sore thumb. I don’t like large rowdy crowds or loud noises and am less interested in music than just about anyone I know. The idea of body surfing or being pushed around in a crowd bothers me since I’d rather not get hurt if I can avoid it. I would feel really uncomfortable there and be glad when it’s over.

Either way, both are totally foreign to me.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Church, provided I get to stay seated during communion.

Although I suspect the staying seated for communion part is for different reasons. For me, Catholics are not supposed to receive communion in Protestant churches (though I'm not at all sure why The Mikado said this).

You should tell that to the Catholics in my home neighborhood who went/go to my parents' Lutheran church because it was closer and take communion. One of my friends mentioned that after he was confirmed he or his parents literally never went to a Catholic church ever again except when they were visiting family out of town. Pretty amusing.

Mikado is a non-religious Jew who no longer associates even with Jewish culture much, if that gives any insight. I suspect he finds the communion ritual distasteful or something. Whatever the case I don't think he'd be "allowed" to in a Southern Baptist church ("allowed" in quotes because of course there's no way to stop him if he did) since I'd be surprised if they allow non-baptized Christians, if they're even open to people outside of the denomination. My church explicitly states in the program it's open to everyone, but I bet he wouldn't take it anyway.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Come to think of it, the similarity in behavior between kids at emoviolence shows and Pentecostal church-goers is kind of interesting, especially considering the essentially zero overlap between the two.

[The Mikado]

I suspect he finds the communion ritual distasteful or something.

It's not a matter of distaste as it is that it's one of the most deeply symbolic acts of accepting Christianity there is (same reason I'd never recite the shahada in an Islamic prayer service).  Taking communion has all sorts of unpleasant theological implications to me.

EDIT:  Took long, rambling post that should be in the Religion board out of my comment.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Church, provided I get to stay seated during communion.

Although I suspect the staying seated for communion part is for different reasons. For me, Catholics are not supposed to receive communion in Protestant churches (though I'm not at all sure why The Mikado said this). In a BushOK-style church I'd undoubtedly have to sit through a ton of things I'd have theological disagreements with. They probably will tell me I'm going to hell. Despite all this I'd probably learn something about how Evangelicals think and I have a grand total of one Evangelical friend in real life so it'd be quite a learning experience. Still, I'd feel extremely awkward and out of place. I'm used to being around a left-wing quasi-atheist crowd I disagree with but not a right-wing Evangelical crowd I disagree with.

As for the emoviolence show, I’d also stick out like a sore thumb. I don’t like large rowdy crowds or loud noises and am less interested in music than just about anyone I know. The idea of body surfing or being pushed around in a crowd bothers me since I’d rather not get hurt if I can avoid it. I would feel really uncomfortable there and be glad when it’s over.

Either way, both are totally foreign to me.

I'm Episcopalian and fairly far to the left politically, but these are pretty much my feelings exactly (I too am much more used to a left-wing crowd that I disagree with on religion than a Christian crowd that I would disagree with on politics and probably a lot of the religion too, so that would at least be a learning experience, if not a very pleasant one).

[specific_name]

I'd rather go to his church, as long as they don't use snakes in the service.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I suspect he finds the communion ritual distasteful or something.

It's not a matter of distaste as it is that it's one of the most deeply symbolic acts of accepting Christianity there is (same reason I'd never recite the shahada in an Islamic prayer service).  Taking communion has all sorts of unpleasant theological implications to me.

Ah, I know a lot of non-Christians associate it with cannibalism or whatever. Though I get what you're saying, even if you take the view of it being entirely symbolic you're still basically saying you believe in Christ by taking it. The church I go to most often (which still isn't a whole lot) puts in their programs "We practice open communion, all are welcome to Christ's table." which implies non-Christians which many might consider a bit of extreme political correctness, though it's probably more of a "how are we going to stop you if you do?" sort of thing.

Church, provided I get to stay seated during communion.

Although I suspect the staying seated for communion part is for different reasons. For me, Catholics are not supposed to receive communion in Protestant churches (though I'm not at all sure why The Mikado said this). In a BushOK-style church I'd undoubtedly have to sit through a ton of things I'd have theological disagreements with. They probably will tell me I'm going to hell. Despite all this I'd probably learn something about how Evangelicals think and I have a grand total of one Evangelical friend in real life so it'd be quite a learning experience. Still, I'd feel extremely awkward and out of place. I'm used to being around a left-wing quasi-atheist crowd I disagree with but not a right-wing Evangelical crowd I disagree with.

As for the emoviolence show, I’d also stick out like a sore thumb. I don’t like large rowdy crowds or loud noises and am less interested in music than just about anyone I know. The idea of body surfing or being pushed around in a crowd bothers me since I’d rather not get hurt if I can avoid it. I would feel really uncomfortable there and be glad when it’s over.

Either way, both are totally foreign to me.

I'm Episcopalian and fairly far to the left politically, but these are pretty much my feelings exactly (I too am much more used to a left-wing crowd that I disagree with on religion than a Christian crowd that I would disagree with on politics and probably a lot of the religion too, so that would at least be a learning experience, if not a very pleasant one).

Well I'm from a Lutheran background, but I've actually gone to some evangelical-ish churches before, but nothing like the Southern Baptists, I have this view of a guy in a suit preaching fire and brimstone stuff to other people mostly dressed up which is quite different from some guy in a shirt and jeans preaching a far more benevolent message to a crowd of of mostly under 35 not at all dressed up sitting on couches or chairs. I actually went to a Vineyard church when I was subleasing and had just moved to Minneapolis and basically did a quick church for the closest liberal-ish and hip church near me the day before Easter. Their site was full of references to them serving fair trade coffee, a social justice commitment, and the sermons listed all had feel-good topics like "The Rest God Offers Us", and "Accepting Others As Christ Accepted You", but the Vineyard movement as I later learned is a charismatic evangelical denomination known for a notorious event called the "Toronto Blessing" (Google or YouTube it). If I had known that beforehand, I doubt I would've went. I don't regret it though, nice place and none of the stereotypical behavior one would expect with a group like that, the most being people waving their arms in the air and swaying.

But yeah, I just can't imagine how badly I'd fit and how distraught I'd be at a church where most people actually dress up.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Well I'm from a Lutheran background, but I've actually gone to some evangelical-ish churches before, but nothing like the Southern Baptists, I have this view of a guy in a suit preaching fire and brimstone stuff to other people mostly dressed up which is quite different from some guy in a shirt and jeans preaching a far more benevolent message to a crowd of of mostly under 35 not at all dressed up sitting on couches or chairs. I actually went to a Vineyard church when I was subleasing and had just moved to Minneapolis and basically did a quick church for the closest liberal-ish and hip church near me the day before Easter. Their site was full of references to them serving fair trade coffee, a social justice commitment, and the sermons listed all had feel-good topics like "The Rest God Offers Us", and "Accepting Others As Christ Accepted You", but the Vineyard movement as I later learned is a charismatic evangelical denomination known for a notorious event called the "Toronto Blessing" (Google or YouTube it). If I had known that beforehand, I doubt I would've went. I don't regret it though, nice place and none of the stereotypical behavior one would expect with a group like that, the most being people waving their arms in the air and swaying.

But yeah, I just can't imagine how badly I'd fit and how distraught I'd be at a church where most people actually dress up.

The situation at my church is usually a guy or one of two girls in brocaded robes preaching an incredibly benevolent, sometimes kind of anodyne but sometimes really powerful and moving, message to a bunch of people whose dress style generally averages out somewhere around 'smart casual' (button-down shirts with the occasional tie to be seen mostly on the older men, slacks other than jeans, generally around knee-length dresses or skirts for those who wear them, sometimes shorter). You probably wouldn't fit in very well there--it skews to the older side, though since I live in a college town there's a fair contingent of late teens/early twenties and some families with children, and the liturgy tends to be pretty formal--but I like it a lot and my main concern with Evangelical/Pentecostal churches is actually more with how scuzzy and architecturally soul-crushing most of the ones in my area are. They are more like stadiums than like churches. It's depressing to me.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't think you'd guys have much to fear at the emoviolence show though. Those shows always have a large crowd in the back that just maybe nod their head or jump up a few times. There's also always a wall of kids who act as sort of buffer zone against the crowd-surfers, hardcore moshers, and kids in a circle pit (YouTube it if you don't know what it is), and basically shove anyone straying from that zone back into it and shield the rest of the crowd.

I remember at one of my first shows I basically ended up in this role and shoved a certain guy away from me several times during one of the sets. After it I spoke to him and apologized and basically told him "No hard feelings or anything and I wasn't trying to hurt you" and he just laughed and said he knew and after that and many more shows I realized how silly apologizing for that sort of thing is, it's just taken and understood. Some time in college I realized how bizarre of a subculture this could be, how many social events exist where you can shove someone into a wall on purpose, and pose absolutely no ill will toward them or even be expected to apologize?

Oh and Nathan you live in Amherst but aren't familiar with emoviolence? Amherst is home to the biggest emoviolence band in the world right now!

Well I'm from a Lutheran background, but I've actually gone to some evangelical-ish churches before, but nothing like the Southern Baptists, I have this view of a guy in a suit preaching fire and brimstone stuff to other people mostly dressed up which is quite different from some guy in a shirt and jeans preaching a far more benevolent message to a crowd of of mostly under 35 not at all dressed up sitting on couches or chairs. I actually went to a Vineyard church when I was subleasing and had just moved to Minneapolis and basically did a quick church for the closest liberal-ish and hip church near me the day before Easter. Their site was full of references to them serving fair trade coffee, a social justice commitment, and the sermons listed all had feel-good topics like "The Rest God Offers Us", and "Accepting Others As Christ Accepted You", but the Vineyard movement as I later learned is a charismatic evangelical denomination known for a notorious event called the "Toronto Blessing" (Google or YouTube it). If I had known that beforehand, I doubt I would've went. I don't regret it though, nice place and none of the stereotypical behavior one would expect with a group like that, the most being people waving their arms in the air and swaying.

But yeah, I just can't imagine how badly I'd fit and how distraught I'd be at a church where most people actually dress up.

The situation at my church is usually a guy or one of two girls in brocaded robes preaching an incredibly benevolent, sometimes kind of anodyne but sometimes really powerful and moving, message to a bunch of people whose dress style generally averages out somewhere around 'smart casual' (button-down shirts with the occasional tie to be seen mostly on the older men, slacks other than jeans, generally around knee-length dresses or skirts for those who wear them, sometimes shorter). You probably wouldn't fit in very well there--it skews to the older side, though since I live in a college town there's a fair contingent of late teens/early twenties and some families with children, and the liturgy tends to be pretty formal--but I like it a lot and my main concern with Evangelical/Pentecostal churches is actually more with how scuzzy and architecturally soul-crushing most of the ones in my area are. They are more like stadiums than like churches. It's depressing to me.

Your's sounds like my parents' church.

I actually like the idea of churches just in a rented warehouse or somewhere, it's similar to my whole hardcore/punk/DIY background where shows are held in such a place or someone's basement rather than some big rock club. I'm not talking about gaudy megachurches remember, I agree those are pretty trashy.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Oh and Nathan you live in Amherst but aren't familiar with emoviolence? Amherst is home to the biggest emoviolence band in the world right now!

I'm conceptually familiar with what emoviolence is, partly because of, as you say, the presence of Orchid (although Orchid's heyday was before my time, while I was still living in Putney, Vermont), but it's about as far from what generally interests me as you can get musically. As with many such towns in New England there is a somewhat genteel, personally (NOT politically!) conservative Amherst alongside the Amherst that's a crucible of social agitation, and those are more the circles that I move in.

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That has a certain appeal, partly because it reminds me of the http://i51.tinypic.com/2njypuh.jpg Roman Catacombs and all, but it has a more...worldly? feel to it than what I look for in a church. I like the whole danse-macabre, valar-morghulis, candles-and-shadows, organ-and-choir aesthetic, which is also why I tend to go to evening services.

[WalterMitty]

... violence against the Palestinian people,....

such people dont exist...

[afleitch]

I'd rather read a book.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh and Nathan you live in Amherst but aren't familiar with emoviolence? Amherst is home to the biggest emoviolence band in the world right now!

I'm conceptually familiar with what emoviolence is, partly because of, as you say, the presence of Orchid (although Orchid's heyday was before my time, while I was still living in Putney, Vermont), but it's about as far from what generally interests me as you can get musically. As with many such towns in New England there is a somewhat genteel, personally (NOT politically!) conservative Amherst alongside the Amherst that's a crucible of social agitation, and those are more the circles that I move in.

I'm talking about Ampere, who are still together (with a member of Orchid) and quite active. I got their latest record in the mail this week on limited edition colored vinyl along with the limited edition First 5 Years LP for pre-orders only. Actually was wondering if they were known in Amherst outside the scene...

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Oh and Nathan you live in Amherst but aren't familiar with emoviolence? Amherst is home to the biggest emoviolence band in the world right now!

I'm conceptually familiar with what emoviolence is, partly because of, as you say, the presence of Orchid (although Orchid's heyday was before my time, while I was still living in Putney, Vermont), but it's about as far from what generally interests me as you can get musically. As with many such towns in New England there is a somewhat genteel, personally (NOT politically!) conservative Amherst alongside the Amherst that's a crucible of social agitation, and those are more the circles that I move in.

I'm talking about Ampere, who are still together (with a member of Orchid) and quite active. I got their latest record in the mail this week on limited edition colored vinyl along with the limited edition First 5 Years LP for pre-orders only. Actually was wondering if they were known in Amherst outside the scene...

They might be known in Amherst outside the scene but they're certainly not universally known, since I've never heard any of my friends talking about them. My friends tend to be more Tom Nielsen/Kate Wolf/Leonard Cohen/Vienna Teng people anyway, though.

[Bo]

Unsure, but probably BushOK's church. I just want to see if it is as good as it sounds.

[Mechaman]

Option one, since I approve of violence against emos.  Even if it's done by Christians.  Hell, I would convert on the spot!